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 [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)

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AuteurMessage
ambike



Nombre de messages : 57
Localisation : DFW,Texas
Date d'inscription : 15/11/2013

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeLun 24 Aoû 2015 - 10:30

Edited by Marc > [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 324787
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Polux rsv



Nombre de messages : 728
Localisation : Par ici
Date d'inscription : 29/09/2012

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
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[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 55116

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 1768664114     [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 498886


Angelo
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Dan42



Nombre de messages : 6142
Localisation : Margerie-Chantagret 42
Date d'inscription : 06/04/2014

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
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Hummm, l'avait l'air fâché notre ami d'outre Atlantique! pour une petite phrase maladroite ou mal comprise?
Dan
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Howard Gifford



Nombre de messages : 139
Age : 64
Localisation : Ottawa Canada
Date d'inscription : 01/05/2012

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
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Could the internals be similar to this engine?
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Howard Gifford



Nombre de messages : 139
Age : 64
Localisation : Ottawa Canada
Date d'inscription : 01/05/2012

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here is the running engine based on an 800 rotax. note the spacer under the cylinders
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Howard Gifford



Nombre de messages : 139
Age : 64
Localisation : Ottawa Canada
Date d'inscription : 01/05/2012

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeMar 25 Aoû 2015 - 15:37

Here is some section views of the piston assembly. Note the pseuto piston has no rings and transfers all the thrust to clean cylinderwalls with no ports. The actual piston head is bolted to the shaft portion. The whole piston assembly looks a bit heavier than a conventional piston but not a lot when it is all trimmed out to the max
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Dan42



Nombre de messages : 6142
Localisation : Margerie-Chantagret 42
Date d'inscription : 06/04/2014

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
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Very interresting design whith " steam engine" pistons, we can suppose that Ryger design is close to this, but without drawings???????
Dan
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Bob van der Zijden



Nombre de messages : 94
Localisation : Hollande
Date d'inscription : 10/09/2013

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: CITS vs RYGER   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeMar 25 Aoû 2015 - 17:50

Dan42 a écrit:
Very interresting design whith " steam engine" pistons, we can suppose that Ryger design is close to this, but without drawings???????
Dan




Dernière édition par Bob van der Zijden le Lun 14 Sep 2015 - 12:53, édité 1 fois
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Sabijator

Sabijator

Nombre de messages : 12
Age : 36
Localisation : Croatia, Trogir
Date d'inscription : 01/07/2011

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
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This engine is big riddle but also looks simple [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 771973
Probably: piston is lubricated with oil from crankshaft chamber, so it can have much better lubrication for hi rpms, piston is longer and crank webs(counterweight) have smaller diameter, when piston is in TDC transfers are also closed under the piston-so no mixing crank oil and fuel, upper part of the crankcase looks classic as we can see shape for transfers and oil groove for main bearing, lower piston ring is not close to upper one?
Front side of carter is mysterious-something goes there-vacum pump?
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Dan42



Nombre de messages : 6142
Localisation : Margerie-Chantagret 42
Date d'inscription : 06/04/2014

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeJeu 27 Aoû 2015 - 8:38

Sabijator a écrit:
This engine is big riddle but also looks simple [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 771973  
Probably: piston is lubricated with oil from crankshaft chamber, so it can have much better lubrication for hi rpms, piston is longer and crank webs(counterweight) have smaller diameter, when piston is in TDC transfers are also closed under the piston-so no mixing crank oil and fuel, upper part of the crankcase looks classic as we can see shape for transfers and oil groove for main bearing, lower piston ring is not close to upper one?
Front side of carter is mysterious-something goes there-vacum pump?

Not certain for a vacum pomp, i think it's the genuine inlet duct connexion of a quite standard crankcase, it looks very similar with VM 125 kart engines ( Czech Rep.) The cylinder also seems very similar, excepted the inlet duct added in a high position.
Dan
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yesyes



Nombre de messages : 27
Localisation : nancy
Date d'inscription : 25/06/2014

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
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Hello,

Considering the Ryger engine picture and if the large crankcase volume is not longer connected with the cylinder and intake track, the different maximum volumes of the elements implicated in " the helmoltz blues of Frits Overmars " ( intake, tansfer ducts, cylinder ) look nearly the same.

It could also ease the global breathing in shortening the travel of the fresh charge and allow some sort of 4 stroke lubrification for the crankshaft.

Does this kind of balance between the maximum volumes of each part play a role in the working efficiency of the globality ?

Thank you
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Phytus

Phytus

Nombre de messages : 646
Localisation : Monségur
Date d'inscription : 22/06/2012

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeJeu 27 Aoû 2015 - 15:36

I can't understand 30000rpm with a "standard" 54mm stroke.
What about the piston speed?! It's quite over 26m/s ...
The acceleration will be awsome at TDC or BDC isn't?


scratch

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http://phytus.skyrock.com/
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars

Nombre de messages : 2351
Age : 71
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeJeu 27 Aoû 2015 - 18:18

Phytus a écrit:
I can't understand 30000rpm with a "standard" 54mm stroke. What about the piston speed?! It's quite over 26m/s ... The acceleration will be awsome at TDC or BDC isn't? scratch
Yes [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 809262
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Dan42



Nombre de messages : 6142
Localisation : Margerie-Chantagret 42
Date d'inscription : 06/04/2014

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeJeu 27 Aoû 2015 - 18:53

Sure, if I don't make a mistake, at 30000Rpm, with a piston +crankpin of 200gr, the connecting rod supports tension and compression loads of around 3700 daN, incredible on such small 125cc parts. 200gr is probably wrong: too light. [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 809262
Dan
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Phytus

Phytus

Nombre de messages : 646
Localisation : Monségur
Date d'inscription : 22/06/2012

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeVen 28 Aoû 2015 - 11:18

Yes ?! ... [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 438659
It's awsome or it's "here" that we must seek an answer idea? scratch

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 101130 [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 3186062340
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Phytus

Nombre de messages : 646
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Date d'inscription : 22/06/2012

[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)   [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 Icon_minitimeVen 28 Aoû 2015 - 11:34

Dan42 a écrit:
Sure, if I don't make a mistake, at 30000Rpm, with a piston +crankpin of 200gr, the connecting rod supports tension and compression loads of around 3700 daN, incredible on such small 125cc parts. 200gr is probably wrong: too light. [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 809262
Dan

Tu obtiens ça comment?! [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4) - Page 40 55116
Il y a accélération et décélération à chaque point mort ...

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