[2stroke] Ryger engine

Nombre de messages : 27 Localisation : nancy Date d'inscription : 25/06/2014

" Certain que c'est un sujet d'homme ; s'agit de ne pas avoir des nerfs de gonzesse.
Encore que j'ai connu une polonaise ... "

I just heard from a friend in Holland that the famous '70HP' Ryger engine in reality only gives about
30HP......
Reliability unknown.

Nombre de messages : 19 Localisation : England Date d'inscription : 07/09/2012

Whoops !!
40bhp must still be lingering somewhere on the internet

Jan you sure the engine is famous and not infamous

Some dyno print ??

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Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Lun 14 Mar 2016 - 12:59

Some news?!

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Lun 14 Mar 2016 - 17:35

Phytus a écrit:: Some news?!

Well, I stumbled upon a publication lately, and it turnes out that the emission values of "worlds first and only clean two-stroke engine - the ryger" can easily be halved by BRPs E-Tec engines, which are into mass production for quite a while now.

Regarding the hp, it sounds solid to me what Jan reported. After all, 30ish hp is what one would expect from a 125cc engine with a single exhaust port and reduced pumping capacity. (And if there really were a dyno sheet showing 70hp @ 16k+ rpm - why would you not show it?)

Looks like the focus of this project was more on advertising than on engineering. And that is really sad. ryger - [2stroke] Ryger engine - Page 13 584741

ryger - [2stroke] Ryger engine - Page 13 584741

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Lun 14 Mar 2016 - 19:54

E-Tech engines ( Evinrude) are direct injected engines, you can't compare, and this technology probably can't rich 17500 rpm on a 2T engine .
Concerning the power, if 30 Hp is real ( not sure), whith a pumping volume of around 50cc ( the real engine capacity), this is wonderfull. We are waiting for more informations from Ryger engines.

E-Tech engines sont des moteurs marine à injection directe, vous ne pouvez comparer, de plus cette technologie ne pourra certainement pas atteindre 17500 tr/mn sur un 2T.
En ce qui concerne la puissance de 30Cv ( pas confirmée), avec un volume d'aspiration de 50cc environ ( la vraie cylindrée théorique ), c'est magnifique. Nous attendons de plus amples informations de la part de Ryger engines.
Dan

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Lun 14 Mar 2016 - 23:59

Dan42 a écrit:: E-Tech engines ( Evinrude) are direct injected engines, you can't compare, and this technology probably can't rich 17500 rpm on a 2T engine .
Concerning the power, if 30 Hp is real ( not sure), whith a pumping volume of around 50cc ( the real engine capacity), this is wonderfull. We are waiting for more informations from Ryger engines.
Dan

I am not so sure the FIA would share your definition of displacement. And of course I can compare these 2 engines, the comparison was at 5000 rpm for both. And it was not me who claimed the wholy grail. Remember, the wording was "worlds first clean two-stroke". And if you do so, you have to stand up to it. (And I would not underestimate todays two-stroke chainsaws in terms of cleanliness, too.)

It is okay if anyone choses to believe the claims and wait for the facts, it is just that I am the other way around - I can not believe those claims without facts first. I would love these claims to be true and proven with hard evidence, but as nothing has happened until now, I doubt it will ever happen.

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mar 15 Mar 2016 - 8:49

The main problem seems to come from nikasil plating the piston (the smaller diameter part of it).
Of course this is a very stupid idea.....
I fully agree with you of course Haufen.
But I think those 70HP were only calculated, never actually seen!
And with calculations very big mistakes are made, sometimes.

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mar 15 Mar 2016 - 11:05

Jan, could you explain why it's a very stupid idea to coat the piston tail whith Nikasil, please?
Dan

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mar 15 Mar 2016 - 12:15

Nikasil vs Nikasil (piston vs Cylinder)
Like chromed ring on chrome plated cylinder

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mar 15 Mar 2016 - 13:00

No nikasil on nikasil, the 'separator' is made from aluminium.
The nikasil plated piston-underside runs in this
The side thrust is very high because of the far too short connecting rod, 90mm, a big mistake!!
And still higher than 'normal' because of the small diameter of the piston-underside.
This is about 46mm I believe.....
So the pressure per square mm becomes very high!!!!
About double the pressure of a 'normal' piston with the right length of connecting rod.
The connecting rod should have been longer than a 'normal' 125 connecting rod, about 130 or 140
Plating the piston is a bad idea because determining the right diameter will be difficult.
It should be grinded for size, and maybe have an oval size.
And also the preparation for plating is bad for the piston, as is the necessary acid 'bath'.
I really think these are insurmountable problems.
And even if a solution is found piston life will always be very short......
This will remain a weak point, and cannot be changed because of the homologation!!!

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mar 15 Mar 2016 - 13:20

ryger - [2stroke] Ryger engine - Page 13 101130

Regards

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mar 15 Mar 2016 - 13:38

Jan Thiel a écrit:: The main problem seems to come from nikasil plating the piston (the smaller diameter part of it).
Of course this is a very stupid idea.....
I fully agree with you of course Haufen.
But I think those 70HP were only calculated, never actually seen!
And with calculations very big mistakes are made, sometimes.

For example I heard about a 50cc engine with a calculated HP of 22.0
When tested it gave 14,9HP....
And even bigger mistakes are quite possible!
Calculations can be very useful when used, but dyno-testing reveals the truth!
I would have liked to have a simulator when I worked at Aprilia, I really believe it
would have helped me a lot, to get even better power!

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mar 15 Mar 2016 - 17:12

Thanks a lot Jan for your answers.
Dan

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mer 16 Mar 2016 - 17:00

Using mota , you can get silly high value , when using engmod2t , without deto , i've never managed to get silly hp :)

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mer 16 Mar 2016 - 18:35

Seb4LO a écrit:: Using mota , you can get silly high value , when using engmod2t , without deto , i've never managed to get silly hp :)

When put in shit you always get shit as output, any program
In the Ryger publication my calculation will be a part of it !!

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mer 16 Mar 2016 - 18:49

Oulah, that don't smell good!
Dan

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mer 16 Mar 2016 - 19:34

Si j'ai bien tout compris (de travers) le top du top, l'arme absolue c'est ce moteur Ryger dans la Geco lol!

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Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mer 23 Mar 2016 - 8:25

so Luc - the castle in the air is falling apart slowly or why are there no breaking news?

Sujet: Re: [2stroke] Ryger engine Mer 23 Mar 2016 - 11:18

koenich a écrit:: so Luc - the castle in the air is falling apart slowly or why are there no breaking news?

Not at all Koenich, it only took some more time, once again be patient!

Still waiting

Howard Gifford a écrit:: Still waiting

I know Howard, sorry for that, but in May all birds lay an egg ! ?

Nombre de messages : 351 Localisation : Belgique Date d'inscription : 05/12/2011

I wonder : is Frits no longer allowed to say anything about the Ryger ryger - [2stroke] Ryger engine - Page 13 55116

No....

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