AccueilGalerieRechercherDernières imagesS'enregistrerConnexionNouveaux messages depuis dernière visite
Rechercher
 
 

Résultats par :
 
Rechercher Recherche avancée
Qui est en ligne ?
Il y a en tout 50 utilisateurs en ligne :: 3 Enregistrés, 0 Invisible et 47 Invités :: 1 Moteur de recherche

Alain Gwada, jackyhdderbi, K.KM

Le record du nombre d'utilisateurs en ligne est de 588 le Jeu 26 Sep 2024 - 4:33
Derniers sujets
» [Oldies] Des livres sur la course moto
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 13:07 par t.cazenabe

» Malheureusement ils sont partis... et ils n'avaient rien à voir avec la moto
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 12:31 par cat

» PROGRAMMES MANQUANTS - PGPM
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 12:25 par jack177071

» [Oldies] Quizz (30)
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 12:00 par DidierF

»  [MotoGP] GP 2024 de Malaisie à Sépang - Les 1 , 2 et 3 Nov 2024 .
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 11:55 par Anthony FZ1

» TT 1979:le dernier pour Mike Hailwood.
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 11:51 par jack177071

» [Oldies] Questions (vitesse 1947-1976)
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 11:46 par DidierF

» [Oldies] Questions (vitesse 1947-1976) (2)
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 11:45 par DidierF

» [Interview] Guy Coulon
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 10:51 par Mykeul

» Bretagne Moto Classic 2024
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 6:58 par Adco

» [Oldies] Les Koehler Escoffier
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeHier à 22:06 par Adco

» epoquauto 2024
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeHier à 19:40 par cateralp

» [Oldies] Side-Car: quelques images
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeHier à 19:01 par Fanchiom

» [Oldies] Aux origines...
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeHier à 17:35 par Apriliabarth

» Intempéries Valencia.
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeSam 2 Nov 2024 - 22:56 par Aragon

» Bourg en Bresse 1958
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeSam 2 Nov 2024 - 21:34 par DidierF

»  [MotoGP] Infos , nouveautés , potins , tests et plus pour la saison GP 2025 ...
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeSam 2 Nov 2024 - 14:31 par EDOUARD Jean

» [2Stroke] Les MZ & Mr Walter Kaaden
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeSam 2 Nov 2024 - 9:42 par jack177071

»  [Oldies] Malheureusement, ils sont partis...
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeSam 2 Nov 2024 - 8:47 par biger

» [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 1 Nov 2024 - 21:13 par Motors31

» ya pas que la moto dans la vie
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 1 Nov 2024 - 16:21 par dga

» Valence...
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 1 Nov 2024 - 12:52 par raspoutine

» les 25 ans du Grand Prix du Ried,"Le TT Alsacien".
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeMer 30 Oct 2024 - 19:00 par bialbero

» [Oldies] Collections motos en vente aux enchères...
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeMer 30 Oct 2024 - 17:03 par Ala Zorro

» [Oldies] A propos des Laverda
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeMer 30 Oct 2024 - 13:39 par jack177071

» [MotoGP] GP 2024 de Thaïlande à Buriram - Les 25 , 26 et 27 Oct 2024 .
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeMer 30 Oct 2024 - 11:24 par VMAX

» [Oldies] Motocistes d'époque
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeMar 29 Oct 2024 - 17:39 par jeannin

»  [MotoGP] GP 2024 du Japon à Motegi - Les 4 , 5 et 6 Oct 2024 .
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeLun 28 Oct 2024 - 14:43 par Dialmax

» [Oldies] Un petit bout de l’histoire Morbidelli, 1977-1979
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeDim 27 Oct 2024 - 17:11 par T54

» controle technique moto
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeDim 27 Oct 2024 - 8:01 par Aragon

Mots-clés
inventaire 1976 wanted suzuki rouge 2013 fior coupe motos moto yamaha bourg ducati 1973 ROAD francaises RACING side Mans oldies bresse artisanales charade zone classic aprilia
Meilleurs posteurs
Marc
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
EDOUARD Jean
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
philwood
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
Pierre"PhilRead"
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
mickey
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
yves kerlo
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
bubu
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
Fügner
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
Dialmax
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
Dan42
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting16Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting13Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Voting15 
La réclame...
Le Deal du moment : -45%
Harman Kardon Citation One MK3 – Enceinte ...
Voir le deal
99 €

 

 Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin

Aller en bas 
5 participants
AuteurMessage
porter_jamie




Nombre de messages : 4
Localisation : UK
Date d'inscription : 15/11/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 22 Mai 2015 - 14:17

Hi

can anyone tell me what the optimum balance factor should be for a contra rotating v twin, such as a rotax 258. i have a project to make a similar engine using cr250 cranks and pistons. The tony foale pdf spells out what a rotax inline contra rotating twin should be, but i am confused about a 90 v twin.

any help gratefully received!

Jamie
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
porter_jamie




Nombre de messages : 4
Localisation : UK
Date d'inscription : 15/11/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 22 Mai 2015 - 14:43

the firing interval will be twingle - ie both firing at the same time
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
porter_jamie




Nombre de messages : 4
Localisation : UK
Date d'inscription : 15/11/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 22 Mai 2015 - 14:46

i got a response but it disappeared - sorry if i might have somehow made it disappear - i probably hit the wrong button if i did!
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2637
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 22 Mai 2015 - 15:39

porter_jamie a écrit:
i got a response but it disappeared - sorry if i might have somehow made it disappear - i probably hit the wrong button if i did!
No worries Jamie. I wrote something and then erased it. You just happened to see it during the few seconds it was visible.
Both counter balance masses together should balance 100% of the resultant of both pistons when these are at Top Dead Center.
The essence is where to put these counter balance masses: 45° offset from the usual single-cylinder position.
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
porter_jamie




Nombre de messages : 4
Localisation : UK
Date d'inscription : 15/11/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 22 Mai 2015 - 15:43

fantastic, thankyou.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Adam Armstrong




Nombre de messages : 13
Localisation : Newcastle upon Tyne
Date d'inscription : 31/01/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 10:55

If the cylinders were much larger would it be necessary to move away from both cylinders firing together and use a alternative firing sequence? If so how would you then balance the cranks?
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2637
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 11:25

Adam Armstrong a écrit:
If the cylinders were much larger would it be necessary to move away from both cylinders firing together and use a alternative firing sequence? If so how would you then balance the cranks?
Why are you asking Adam? Do you think the torque peaks of two big barrels firing simultaneously might destroy the clutch, the transmission or the tire? You may well be right. But I don't think you can correctly balance an out-of-phase tandem-twin. I'd rather choose a 90° V-twin with a single crankshaft and a 90° firing interval anyway.
By the way: I see you're from Newcatle. Shouldn't there be an extra t behind the a? Or maybe an s? Wink
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Adam Armstrong




Nombre de messages : 13
Localisation : Newcastle upon Tyne
Date d'inscription : 31/01/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 12:07

Hi Frits, yeah that's what I was thinking. However I guess an alternately firing V twin with two cranks you'd generate a rocking couple effect.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Adam Armstrong




Nombre de messages : 13
Localisation : Newcastle upon Tyne
Date d'inscription : 31/01/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 12:17

Also, yes you're right. Thanks for the heads up.
I should really check my spelling!
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2637
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 12:18

Adam Armstrong a écrit:
Hi Frits,  yeah that's what I was thinking. However I guess an alternately firing V twin with two cranks you'd generate a rocking couple effect.
That's right, although the rocking couple can be kept within limits if both con rods are close to each other.
Besides, you can fit a balance shaft, as Honda did in their two-stroke V-engines.
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

Re your spelling: too bad you didn't change Newcatle into Newcattle Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin 570102
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Adam Armstrong




Nombre de messages : 13
Localisation : Newcastle upon Tyne
Date d'inscription : 31/01/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 12:53

Do you think therefore that you wouldn't be able to balance the RSW engine to run firing alternately?
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2637
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 13:21

Adam Armstrong a écrit:
Do you think therefore that you wouldn't be able to balance the RSW engine to run firing alternately?
Not contrarotating and vibrationfree without adding yet another shaft.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Adam Armstrong




Nombre de messages : 13
Localisation : Newcastle upon Tyne
Date d'inscription : 31/01/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 13:24

Thanks Frits. Whopping great big torque peaks it is then!
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2637
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 14:06

Adam Armstrong a écrit:
Thanks Frits. Whopping great big torque peaks it is then!
It took me some time but I think I've got my brain in gear now, Adam.
Tandem-twins and Armstrong, hmmm? You wouldn't have anything to do with the engine pictured below, would you?

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

If you do, there may be a solution: set the crankshafts at 90° phase and skip the contrarotation. like the sketch below:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

If you use two 'rear' crankshafts, there would be room between their small primary gears for an intermediate coupling & balance gear.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Adam Armstrong




Nombre de messages : 13
Localisation : Newcastle upon Tyne
Date d'inscription : 31/01/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 14:36

Haha, I wish! Sorry Frits I didn't mean a tandem.
I was thinking of an engine with an arrangement like the Aprilia V twin you've shown above but enlarged to 1000cc.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2637
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeJeu 4 Juin 2015 - 14:51

Adam Armstrong a écrit:
I was thinking of an engine with an arrangement like the Aprilia V twin you've shown above but enlarged to 1000cc.  
If the engine is not already in existence, I would advise against it. You should take a good look at a Honda NSR500V instead (its engine is shown further above). I love the simplicity of that bike (don't like the single-sided swing arm though).
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Bioracing




Nombre de messages : 2
Localisation : Italy
Date d'inscription : 05/01/2016

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeVen 29 Jan 2016 - 2:21

Hello everyone :)
I know that this is not the latest topic on the forum but I have a question:
I know that you are talking about a 90° twin, sorry if this will be off topic, but chosing a 180° displacement (counterotating twin) will you get a better balance (with twin sparks)? And what about vibrations? I'm not considering that a 2stroke engine is usually placed in a bike or a kart and a 180° disposition can't be used for space problems
Thank you :)
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Niels Abildgaard




Nombre de messages : 37
Localisation : Denmark
Date d'inscription : 26/02/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeSam 30 Jan 2016 - 9:40

Hello bioracing

A sketch of the system will further Your case.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Niels Abildgaard




Nombre de messages : 37
Localisation : Denmark
Date d'inscription : 26/02/2013

Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitimeSam 30 Jan 2016 - 9:48

Frits Overmars a écrit:

If the engine is not already in existence, I would advise against it. You should take a good look at a Honda NSR500V instead (its engine is shown further above). I love the simplicity of that bike (don't like the single-sided swing arm though).
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

That is the nicest Bike I know;
apart from my MZ of course.
Next step in NSR500V development should have been to run both conrods on a single throw,cracked crank,one carburator,and a single united  exhaust system.
And then allow lets say ccm550.The ugly  fourstrokes were allowed to double up.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Contenu sponsorisé





Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin   Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin Icon_minitime

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
 
Balance factor of contra rotating 90deg v twin
Revenir en haut 
Page 1 sur 1
 Sujets similaires
-
» [2 stroke] Weight or balancing factor
» [Oldies] Quizz??????
» [Oldies] la 125 V twin abf
» [Oldies] Parlons Villa!
» Terrot, des Twin ‘s de course.

Permission de ce forum:Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
 :: ACTUALITES :: [GP] :: [GP125 (et 250 Snif!)]-
Sauter vers: