| | [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) |  |
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+110ROSSIGRM Daniel A. Haufen wax GtG001 noppie7 Aleph Fügner Brian Callahan Howard Gifford roost t2 190mech ettoiffi lesolexeur Mic Hakkelaar Makr pierre95 GrahamB XpTpSMTT julien #41 rgdavid le vieux docteur romeuh80 SB07 Sabijator ghg02 tz_37 gromono72 Tomi titi rg250 EMOTracing David Matech Solutions zilo bic1983 JoeHännes Riley Will MANETON Jan Thiel bengui LDA Jordan75 tht44 mickie pfpraider cocco83 granjoie Shining jenne smit Michael Burgard nasone32 Camus14 tzpagnol cristogrr 2T4T Alfred Kleis Pickup zelos Institute of TwoStrokes MacPepR 2stroke zeze Emmanuel Laurentz Toop pit Frits Overmars jmdonnat lougassi mike Fonfon #155 pierre Charly phil yanapu bitza32 drt67 superkart eric² Jarno fpayart Team MLR Fabien fab evospeed Ricco#6 Pignool Yonel DAD#21 rs69 Seb4LO ridley 50cc dooky remix31 nsfman philou janpol84 aerophil i-greck Polo les gazs freddy Stephane Inspecteur Harry Thirob jerem-aye mecanik svtce l'occitan Martine Eric Marc 114 participants |
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Jan Thiel
Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 83
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) ![[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitime](https://2img.net/i/fa/icon_minitime.gif) Dim 20 Fév 2011 - 10:54 | |
| Marquez is an excellent rider, and was riding for the best team.
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pfpraider
Nombre de messages : 16
Localisation : bourne england
Date d'inscription : 25/11/2010
| | Sujet: RSA Dim 20 Fév 2011 - 10:58 | |
| Hi Jan or Frits, do any of the teams have some one who is allowed to do work on the engines to maybe find a little more for certain tracks. Do they all use the same exhaust. |
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Marc
Admin
Nombre de messages : 28147
Age : 65
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Dim 20 Fév 2011 - 11:17 | |
| - Jan Thiel a écrit:
- Marquez is an excellent rider, and was riding for the best team.
I agree 100%. Spanish school is the best and what he is showing during this year tests is very exciting... Thank you Jan. ![[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 1993206895](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/1993206895.jpg) _________________ Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] |
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Institute of TwoStrokes
Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Dim 20 Fév 2011 - 11:31 | |
| - pfpraider a écrit:
- Hi Jan or Frits, do any of the teams have some one who is allowed to do work on the engines to maybe find a little more for certain tracks. Do they all use the same exhaust.
 Who and how can you get more from this engine? I often say that it would be far easier to loose 10HP than to gain 1 from a RSA. Jan was Aprilia ever concerned about the challenge from KTM in both 125 and 250? |
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Jan Thiel
Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 83
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 23 Fév 2011 - 6:56 | |
| No, Aprilia was never really concerned about KTM |
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Institute of TwoStrokes
Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Jeu 24 Fév 2011 - 0:59 | |
| ![[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 809262](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/809262.gif) Obviously you still had some margin for improvement? Can you explain more about your variable tailpipe idea? I could imagine a device similar to a camera aperture driven by a servo motor? (for Jarno) Manifestement, vous n'avait toujours une certaine marge d'amélioration? Pouvez-vous expliquer plus à propos de votre variable échappement idée? Je pourrais imaginer un dispositif similaire à une caméra conduit par un servomoteur? |
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Jan Thiel
Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 83
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Dim 27 Fév 2011 - 14:09 | |
| we had a good safety margin with our carburation.
we could have improved using an injector instead of the powerjet.
KTM had this already!
there were many ideas about a variable tailpipe!
and also about variable inlet timing |
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Jarno
Nombre de messages : 8661
Localisation : Imatra sur Seine
Date d'inscription : 10/11/2009
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Dim 27 Fév 2011 - 14:57 | |
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zilo
Nombre de messages : 467
Localisation : haute garonne
Date d'inscription : 09/11/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 2 Mar 2011 - 23:09 | |
| - Jan Thiel a écrit:
- we had a good safety margin with our carburation.
we could have improved using an injector instead of the powerjet.
KTM had this already!
there were many ideas about a variable tailpipe!
and also about variable inlet timing Hi Jan Some thing like this ? [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]I was in Varese last week, and I met some of your old italians mates. |
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David Matech Solutions
Nombre de messages : 3
Age : 52
Localisation : Netherlands
Date d'inscription : 18/01/2011
| | Sujet: Closed pinstonpins for RS125 available? Jeu 3 Mar 2011 - 22:54 | |
| Hello,
Great idea about the closed pistonpins. How much hp do you gain from that? Does anyone know if they are also available for the Honda RS125?
I am surprised to see (if I see it correctly) the pins are still plain steel with Chromium coating. I am a material scientist by profession, 2-stroke lover, and if money-no-object, I would expect the pins to be coated titanium. I set out to make these once for a R6 fourstroke (please don't shoot me) and you can raise rpm ceiling by about 600rpm easily. Are Titanium pistonpins used in 2-strokes?
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Jan Thiel
Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 83
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 9 Mar 2011 - 7:43 | |
| Almost all 2stroke engines have a needle bearing in the small end.
I do not think you could use a titanium piston pin with a needle bearing. |
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David Matech Solutions
Nombre de messages : 3
Age : 52
Localisation : Netherlands
Date d'inscription : 18/01/2011
| | Sujet: Titanium 2-stroke pistonpins Mer 9 Mar 2011 - 22:04 | |
| I haven't seen needle bearings on a titanium pin. But if I look at the important properties (for example yield strength, fatique strength, brittleness, etc.) I can imagine a titanium smallend should be possible. Providing the correct titanium is selected. And of course the correct surface structure and coating is used to prevent galling.
Anyone with an answer on the HP gain for the closed pistonpins? Is it worth it at privateer level?
And are they available for the RS125? |
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EMOTracing
Nombre de messages : 122
Age : 51
Localisation : Assen ,Netherlands
Date d'inscription : 10/12/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 9 Mar 2011 - 23:18 | |
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The answer to your two questions have been discussed over and over on this and other forums.
At this moment it is almost considered "basic knowledge" by the other 2 stroke technique orientated forum writers.
Main goal of the cap on the pin is to lower the shortcut loss exhaustport-scavengeport when the pinhole runs over them.
The Aprilia pins are available ,but expensive.
Frits Overmars invented a universal plastic alternative.
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Frits Overmars
Nombre de messages : 2614
Age : 75
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 9 Mar 2011 - 23:57 | |
| - EMOTracing a écrit:
- Frits Overmars invented a universal plastic alternative.
Plastic? At € 600 per meter for a 16 mm rod it could as well be gold.... @anybody who is interested: the commercial side is handled by [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] Yes, that same Emot... |
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EMOTracing
Nombre de messages : 122
Age : 51
Localisation : Assen ,Netherlands
Date d'inscription : 10/12/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Jeu 10 Mar 2011 - 10:03 | |
| Only little problem ...not much to commercialise due to the fact that there are only a few available.
So lets call it "distributing the pre-production version" |
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Riley Will
Nombre de messages : 54
Age : 51
Localisation : Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Date d'inscription : 14/01/2011
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Ven 11 Mar 2011 - 19:37 | |
| We have measured 1.5-2.0hp on our 250cc twin with the closed pins.
Ti wrist pins cannot work with needle bearings because you cannot get a hard enough and thick enough "case" depth in the material.
BRC has built closed pins with 9310 VIM/VAR material. They are half the price of Aprilia. |
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Jan Thiel
Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 83
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Sam 12 Mar 2011 - 4:13 | |
| That is about the same difference we saw at Aprilia.
Of course the Aprilia prices are excessive! |
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David Matech Solutions
Nombre de messages : 3
Age : 52
Localisation : Netherlands
Date d'inscription : 18/01/2011
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Sam 12 Mar 2011 - 10:45 | |
| I found these prices at [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] (2005 USD price list) 01-14-006 Wrist Pin - Closed $274.86 01-14-005 Wrist Pin - Open $21.35 |
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Marc
Admin
Nombre de messages : 28147
Age : 65
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Ven 6 Mai 2011 - 0:10 | |
| Quelques photos ramenées d'Estoril, de mauvaise qualité... _________________ Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] |
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rg250
Nombre de messages : 44
Localisation : Prouvenço Var
Date d'inscription : 31/03/2011
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 9 Mai 2011 - 22:19 | |
| Jolies les photos Marc, ![[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 241515](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/241515.gif) Il y a comme des bouchons sur l'axe de piston On se voit au Mans ? Je suis dans la tribune Aprilia ! Gaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzz et regazzzzzzzzzzzzzz pour Zarco ! |
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rg250
Nombre de messages : 44
Localisation : Prouvenço Var
Date d'inscription : 31/03/2011
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 9 Mai 2011 - 22:36 | |
| Par contre il y a peut-être une trace suspecte sur l'angle supérieur du piston côté échap (visible entre le segment et la calotte en bas à gauche de la dernière image) ? |
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Marc
Admin
Nombre de messages : 28147
Age : 65
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 11 Mai 2011 - 21:24 | |
| Si quelqu'un peut m'expliquer ce que c'est que ça.... Juste le piston? Mais on ne voit pas le segment... ![[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 412241](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/412241.gif) _________________ Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] |
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fpayart
Nombre de messages : 1237
Age : 74
Localisation : LYON
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 11 Mai 2011 - 21:30 | |
| C'est de la matière qui fait partie du cylindre, les formes de la sortie du cylindre et de la pipe ne sont pas indentiques |
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fpayart
Nombre de messages : 1237
Age : 74
Localisation : LYON
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 11 Mai 2011 - 21:40 | |
| Vite fait pour aider à comprendre [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]Demain départ pour Magny-Cours, Championnat d'Europe ... |
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Marc
Admin
Nombre de messages : 28147
Age : 65
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 11 Mai 2011 - 21:41 | |
| Au vu de la photo, c'est ce que je pensais, mais sans en être certain.
La partie basse (et haute) du conduit d'échappement est donc plus plate que la pipe?
Afin de créer une sorte de décrochement aérodynamique?
Pour éviter le retour des gaz et/ou de l'onde de pression?
_________________ Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] |
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| | [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) | |
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