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 [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)

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AuteurMessage
JanBros



Nombre de messages : 217
Localisation : Belgique
Date d'inscription : 05/12/2011

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)   Sam 28 Juil 2018 - 13:30

I don't know, but first thing anybody else will ask is : "more info"
purpose of engine (racing, MX, dragracing, ...)
max rpm
timing's of cylinder
.
.
.

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Fredrikgu



Nombre de messages : 7
Localisation : FG
Date d'inscription : 09/04/2015

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)   Lun 30 Juil 2018 - 20:35

Hi,

You asked for a paper regarding the pressure ratio causing choked flow. Have attached such a paper, however not for two stroke but four stroke, but the theory should be the same more or less.
Looking into the formulas in the paper I get that the pressure level for sonic flow is around a pressure ratio of 2 between the cylinder and the exhaust channel. I kindly ask the Professor not to request me to post a proof of the presented formulas. My intention is really not to start up a continued discussion around the topic, just wanted to share it. Maybe it can be to some help.

Regards, Fredrik G.

(http://nopr.niscair.res.in/handle/123456789/29957)

Goodbye.[/quote]

Hello Ken, are you a moderator? If so, then please inform me in detail of any violations on my part of the forum rules, and then take appropriate action, such as an official warning. If you are not a moderator, then you should consider your words carefully. As a forum member you are asking another forum member to go away - because you are "disappointed with my attitude".

I am disappointed with your attitude and manner. I am looking forward to reading more of your posts so that I can react to them with WORDS that __you__ don't like Very Happy

If you (or anybody else) wants to set some kind of "standard" for what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in this thread or in this forum, then the thread or forum should be closed and all contributions should be reviewed and approved before publication.

I suggest you close your eyes, and go to your Happy Place, where it is Christmas 365 days per year and there are endless renditions of "Imagine" by John Lennon.[/quote]
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ReinanRacing



Nombre de messages : 45
Localisation : Japon
Date d'inscription : 24/06/2018

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)   Mer 1 Aoû 2018 - 15:57

Fredrikgu a écrit:
Hi,

You asked for a paper regarding the pressure ratio causing choked flow. Have attached such a paper, however not for two stroke but four stroke, but the theory should be the same more or less.
Looking into the formulas in the paper I get that the pressure level for sonic flow is around a pressure ratio of 2 between the cylinder and the exhaust channel. I kindly ask the Professor not to request me to post a proof of the presented formulas. My intention is really not to start up a continued discussion around the topic, just wanted to share it. Maybe it can be to some help.

Regards, Fredrik G.

(http://nopr.niscair.res.in/handle/123456789/29957)

Goodbye.

The Professor is very grateful for this contribution. I will study the paper.

Please note: indeed, in the test of Gordon P. Blair there is a formula to calculate the "critical pressure ratio" in the specific case of flow from a cylinder (large volume), through a "throat" into a pipe. Indeed, the critical pressure ratio is approximately 2. Well, in my calculations, it is between 1 / 0.52 = 1.92 and 1 / 0.602 = 1.66, depending on the properties of the gas.
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ReinanRacing



Nombre de messages : 45
Localisation : Japon
Date d'inscription : 24/06/2018

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)   Mer 1 Aoû 2018 - 15:59

Please note: I have opened a new thread about gas dynamics in exhaust systems. Interested readers are referred to: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
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iizquierdo



Nombre de messages : 1
Localisation : Spagne
Date d'inscription : 05/08/2018

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)   Mar 7 Aoû 2018 - 10:26

Hello Jan and Frits,

This thread has hundreds of pages and I think that I've read all but I'm not sure if the questions I'm going to ask are already asked. Anyway, there's my doubts:

- First one is about the oil mixure. Have you tested the oil ratio and does it affect to the power? Could you tell us the % of oil used at the RSA? Do you use castor based oil or 100% syntethic? For the mixure process, do you how many liters of gasoline could be mixed with the oil at the same time?

- The second one is about the working temperature of the engine. Have you tested the optimal temperature for that engine?

-The third one is about maintenance schedule; how many hours last the piston / rod / cranshaft bearings etc?

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards,
Iván.
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Frits Overmars

avatar

Nombre de messages : 2022
Age : 70
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)   Mar 7 Aoû 2018 - 16:33

iizquierdo a écrit:
Hello Jan and Frits, This thread has hundreds of pages and I think that I've read all but I'm not sure if the questions I'm going to ask are already asked. Anyway, there's my doubts:
- First one is about the oil mixure. Have you tested the oil ratio and does it affect to the power? Could you tell us the % of oil used at the RSA? Do you use castor based oil or 100% syntethic? For the mixure process, do you how many liters of gasoline could be mixed with the oil at the same time?
- The second one is about the working temperature of the engine. Have you tested the optimal temperature for that engine?
-The third one is about maintenance schedule; how many hours last the piston / rod / cranshaft bearings etc?
Thank you very much in advance. Best regards,
Iván.
Bienvenido Iván,
Your questions have indeed already been asked and answered here somewhere, sometime. I am not going to try and find the exact places, that could take me hours, so I will just answer what I know from memory.
The fuel had a content of 5% synthetic Agip oil. Less oil gave less power.
I can't say how many liters were prepared at a time; that could vary amongst the various teams. But as a general advice I would say: do not mix more than you need and always keep the gasoline and the mixture in cool, sealed metal containers. Some fuel components have a boiling point of just 50°C and each time you open a warm fuel container, you will here the hissing sound of those componenents escaping.
The optimal engine temperature is: the cooler the better. The limit is only set by the environmental temperature and the size of the radiator.
I do not recall the maintenance schedule; maybe Jan can say more about it. But there will no doubt be differences between track maintenance and the test bench schedule, where, for example, a connecting rod lasted a full season of testing.
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ReinanRacing



Nombre de messages : 45
Localisation : Japon
Date d'inscription : 24/06/2018

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)   Dim 12 Aoû 2018 - 3:29

iizquierdo a écrit:
Hello Jan and Frits,

This thread has hundreds of pages and I think that I've read all but I'm not sure if the questions I'm going to ask are already asked. Anyway, there's my doubts:

- First one is about the oil mixure. Have you tested the oil ratio and does it affect to the power? Could you tell us the % of oil used at the RSA? Do you use castor based oil or 100% syntethic? For the mixure process, do you how many liters of gasoline could be mixed with the oil at the same time?

- The second one is about the working temperature of the engine. Have you tested the optimal temperature for that engine?

-The third one is about maintenance schedule; how many hours last the piston / rod / cranshaft bearings etc?

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards,
Iván.

Check this article in Dutch motorcycle magazine Moto73, nr. 13 (2011): [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

In short:

- crankshaft: "lasts between 2200 and 2500 km"
- drive axle of rotary disc: "approximately 3500 km"
- race weekend: "a new piston for every day" (it is noted: a race weekend is 450 km)
- clutch: new plates every 3 races
- rotary disc: 3 to 4 races
- one season requires 2 to 3 cylinders (it is noted: "You need some luck. That they don't start cracking and things like that.")

About operating costs:
- RSA complete: E 165,000
- Cylinder: E 6,000
- Cylinder head: E 150
- Piston + ring: E 150
- connecting rod set: E 900
- One GP requires 8 to 9 rear tires and 5 to 5 front tires; one set costs E 350
- Fuel: for one weekend, 50 liters, E 5 per liter
- APX2 (electronic control system): E 5,000 (but should not fail under normal circumstances)
- Carburettor: E 10,000
- Carbon fairing kit: E 5,000
- Exhaust: E 1,700

It is noted: "Crashes are most expensive. An original Aprilia-fairing made of carbon fibre costs E 5000 and an exhaust, E1700. Those often break in a crash."

The technical specification lists "premix 1:25" (4%), and a fuel consumption of 1 l per 9.5 - 10 km, "start weight" 76 kg and top speed of 244 km/h.
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MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)   

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