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 [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?

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AuteurMessage
Brian Callahan



Nombre de messages : 19
Localisation : San Diego, USA
Date d'inscription : 14/05/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/10/2014, 02:25

Hello,

What is the best way to design a side transfer duct in 3D CAD?

Should I base it on a centerline path, blending between cross-sections along the path? This makes it easy to control the cross-sectional area schedule. Or, is it better to parameterize the wall surfaces? This makes it easier to control the bend radii and jet guiding parameters.

I am familiar with some 2D drawings showing a late model Aprila 125cc cylinder. But, I can't figure out how they might have modeled it in 3D.

Could anyone please step through their CAD feature tree for me?

Sorry for not posting in French.
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brokedown



Nombre de messages : 151
Localisation : usa
Date d'inscription : 29/09/2013

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/10/2014, 05:29

i dont have a answer for your question but have you ever used vinamold to pour in the transfer tunells ? i been trying to find some in the usa but i cant locate any. do you know of any online places that have it ? i have a ktm cylinder and it appears as the tunells go upward, the width increases and the height decreases, if that makes sense. from the rsa mold pictures a few pages back, it looks like those tunells might be the same way. anyways i want to put vinamold in there so i can get a better visual idea of whats going on
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Emil'

Emil'

Nombre de messages : 2793
Age : 34
Localisation : IDF SUD
Date d'inscription : 22/10/2010

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/10/2014, 08:32

You need tu use evolutive swap tool (not sure if utd correct term)

fonction lissage sur solidworks

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Emil'

Emil'

Nombre de messages : 2793
Age : 34
Localisation : IDF SUD
Date d'inscription : 22/10/2010

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/10/2014, 08:33

You draw différent sketches of the section at different height in the cylinder and a pass

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Emil'

Emil'

Nombre de messages : 2793
Age : 34
Localisation : IDF SUD
Date d'inscription : 22/10/2010

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/10/2014, 10:22

With pictures :)

Draw the cylinder
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Draw the sketch of the entry at the bottom
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Build a plan at the middle (you can draw as much intermediate sketch as you want)
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Build the exit section - i've build it on the face plan, but you have to think about the projection on cylinder. You can also build 3d sketch directly on the cylinder face (i will try it)
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Draw the trajectory between profiles
2 in my exemple, to prevent from to big deformation during the swap
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Use the swap (?) tool
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Tadam - you got a magnific transfer
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I hope i have answered to your request ??

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Emil'

Emil'

Nombre de messages : 2793
Age : 34
Localisation : IDF SUD
Date d'inscription : 22/10/2010

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/10/2014, 10:41

You can easily project the shape on the cylinder face and use it for the swap ;

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fpayart

fpayart

Nombre de messages : 1118
Age : 70
Localisation : LYON
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/10/2014, 18:39

Bravo Emile, tu cumules les talents [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? 241515
Quelle version de SOLIDWORKS ?
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http://www.fperacing.com/
Brian Callahan



Nombre de messages : 19
Localisation : San Diego, USA
Date d'inscription : 14/05/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/10/2014, 23:39

brokedown,

Frankly I do not have much experience with this, but my brother and I did have some success in some 4-stroke runners with Dragon Skin High Performance Silicone Rubber ("platinum cure") from a company called Smooth-On. Their web site is the same as their name dot com.

I think we used the 30A shore hardness version, but my brother will check tonight.

Emil',

I am not sure what happened to my previous reply, but thanks! I use Creo (Pro/E), and it has similar functions to what you show.

Does anyone else have more tricks and tips for this sort of CAD?
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Ian Harrison



Nombre de messages : 100
Localisation : United Kingdom
Date d'inscription : 28/08/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime31/10/2014, 01:02

Hi Brokedown

Are these guys any good for you?

We use the Vinamold red variety.

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Best Regards

Ian Very Happy
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brokedown



Nombre de messages : 151
Localisation : usa
Date d'inscription : 29/09/2013

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime31/10/2014, 07:01

thnx ian ill give them a call and order the red stuff. being able to make a rubber mold of the tunell will help me better undrstand it. i want to measure the width and height changes as the tunell goes up toward the cylinder bore. if you dont mind me asking, what did you use on the duct walls so the vinamold will release easily ? i was thinking motor oil but maybe theres something better

brian have you tried youtube. they have alot of tutorials on there.  

ive wanted to get solid works ( or something similar ) but i just never got around to it. mostly to play around with and design cylinders, transfer ports, exhaust ports etc. ive never used any 3D model program before however. does anyone have a suggestion for a good 3D software i could buy so i can design stuff like the pictures emil posted ?  i see solid works has several different 3D CAD packages (standard, professional,premium), which one do you recomend for 2t engine design ?
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Brian Callahan



Nombre de messages : 19
Localisation : San Diego, USA
Date d'inscription : 14/05/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime31/10/2014, 07:58

brokedown,

Creo is good for general purpose things, but falls down when dealing with surfaces. I understand Catia is better in this regard but I don't have direct experience with it. For the ports I design for blower-charged uniflow-scavenged two-strokes at my day job, Creo is not the best.
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Emil'

Emil'

Nombre de messages : 2793
Age : 34
Localisation : IDF SUD
Date d'inscription : 22/10/2010

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime31/10/2014, 09:31

For non-professionnal use, you should try to find student version of solidworks.Can be enough

Standard Version cost maybe 10.000€ for 1 licence... Or you should ask the pirat ... [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? 809516
The standard version is enough to build cylinder.
Professionnal and Premium add specific tools for routing, calculating tool ...

I also use a lot CREO, but solidworks is more intuitive for beginner.

I'm not sure to have perfectly understant your need, and what you wanted to do...


@Fpayart, j'utilise Solidworks Premium 2013

mais aussi
Wildfire 4 -5
Inventor (que j'aime beaucoup)
Catia, que je déteste...


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SB07



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 40
Localisation : Goito (MN) Italy
Date d'inscription : 05/12/2010

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime31/10/2014, 09:39

Hy to all

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Brian Callahan



Nombre de messages : 19
Localisation : San Diego, USA
Date d'inscription : 14/05/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime31/10/2014, 20:20

SB07,

Thanks! I will need to study your tree. Could you explain it a little?
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gpracing



Nombre de messages : 9
Localisation : Hungary
Date d'inscription : 03/02/2013

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime1/11/2014, 12:15

We designed with Solidworks, and we worked with nc milling, turning. Cylinder make with home made casting, liners made with milling.
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My friend six gear, watercooled crankhouse, home made cylinder Simson S51:
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But fortunately, any component can be constructed. Gears, crankshaft... Only trouble is the less time and money. [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? 809262
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Larry Wiechman



Nombre de messages : 5
Age : 64
Localisation : Roscoe, Illinois USA
Date d'inscription : 20/12/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime4/11/2014, 01:14


Brian,
I'm working on a similar project. My plan is to construct a generic SolidWorks model of a cylinder and link the dimensions to an Excel design table. From that point on, just reconfigure the design table data and the model will update to the new specifications. I have seen this method applied to expansion chamber design with great results.
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Brian Callahan



Nombre de messages : 19
Localisation : San Diego, USA
Date d'inscription : 14/05/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime5/11/2014, 00:47

I am interested in how people model the lead-in round from the crankcase.

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Tim Ey



Nombre de messages : 16
Localisation : Allemagne
Date d'inscription : 22/05/2013

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime25/11/2014, 14:54

brokedown a écrit:
if you dont mind me asking, what did you use on the duct walls so the vinamold will release easily ? i was thinking motor oil but maybe theres something better

You do not need any release agent.
Vinamold (red) is really easy to remove when it is cold. If you wait long enough so the plaster is hardened to the core, just use compressed air to blow between port and plaster and you can pull the vinamold out quite easy.

It is perfect when you had just worked on the port - the Vinamold removes all the chippings quite effective [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? 809262
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Brian Callahan



Nombre de messages : 19
Localisation : San Diego, USA
Date d'inscription : 14/05/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime30/11/2014, 03:07

gpracing a écrit:
Cylinder make with home made casting, liners made with milling.
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gpracing, are your transfer ducts in the cylinder cast or machined? Can you show me where is your case-cylinder joint?
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florent.doublet



Nombre de messages : 21
Localisation : here
Date d'inscription : 11/09/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime9/1/2015, 11:01

Je m'amuse également avec les outils numériques.

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C'est conçu pour minarelli am6

N'hesitez pas pour les conseils

bientôt impression 3d grâce à un membre du forum que je remercie bien bas (Rom si tu passes par là)
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Lili@n

Lili@n

Nombre de messages : 31
Localisation : Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Date d'inscription : 08/09/2013

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime9/1/2015, 12:01

florent.doublet a écrit:
Je m'amuse également avec les outils numériques.

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C'est conçu pour minarelli am6

N'hesitez pas pour les conseils

bientôt impression 3d grâce à un membre du forum que je remercie bien bas (Rom si tu passes par là)



[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? 241515 [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? 809262
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florent.doublet



Nombre de messages : 21
Localisation : here
Date d'inscription : 11/09/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime5/3/2015, 22:46

j'ai encore beaucoup de travail !


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brokedown



Nombre de messages : 151
Localisation : usa
Date d'inscription : 29/09/2013

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime6/3/2015, 01:53

nice work florent. is that solid works ? have you ever used sketch makeup ?
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florent.doublet



Nombre de messages : 21
Localisation : here
Date d'inscription : 11/09/2012

[2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime7/3/2015, 00:39

brokedown a écrit:
nice work florent. is that solid works ?  have you ever used sketch makeup ?  

hey brokedown thank you for your comment ! [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? 980796
Yes it's Solidworks, very nice for students like me and mecanicals applications
For sketchmakeup, I never heard about it
Do you use it ? is it a surfacing tool ?
is it free ? what kind of apply is it for ?
apologies for my english
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Nombre de messages : 151
Localisation : usa
Date d'inscription : 29/09/2013

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MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime7/3/2015, 04:13

ya i have sketchmakup because its a free tool. of course its not nearly as good as solid works however but what can you expect for free lol!
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MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD?   [2 stroke] question: how to design a transfer duct in CAD? Icon_minitime

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