AccueilGalerieRechercherS'enregistrerConnexionNouveaux messages depuis dernière visite
Rechercher
 
 

Résultats par :
 
Rechercher Recherche avancée
Qui est en ligne ?
Il y a en tout 26 utilisateurs en ligne :: 1 Enregistré, 0 Invisible et 25 Invités :: 2 Moteurs de recherche

2stroke4ever

Le record du nombre d'utilisateurs en ligne est de 355 le Lun 13 Sep 2021 - 14:59
Derniers sujets
» Suspension à la con
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 2:13 par Laurence Smith

»  [FSBK] Ledenon 2022 . Les 27 , 28 et 29 Mai 2022
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 0:18 par EDOUARD Jean

» [SORTIES] Moto Légende 2022
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeAujourd'hui à 0:02 par spreyer

» [MotoGP] GP 2022 d' Italie sur le Circuit du Mugello , les 27 - 28 et 29 Mai 2022
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeHier à 22:07 par Mykeul

» (Oldies) Un Pépé, des coques (et accessoirement des poutres)
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeHier à 19:54 par jicel

» [Pit Laners en course!] Clément Révolte (coupe YAMAHA R125)
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeHier à 15:37 par Mykeul

» [Oldies] Quizz (26)
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 27 Mai 2022 - 22:43 par bubu

» (Sorrtie): Coupes moto legende à Dijon 28/29 mai 2022
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 27 Mai 2022 - 21:23 par closed

»  [MotoGP] Infos , nouveautés , potins et plus pour la saison GP 2023 ...
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 27 Mai 2022 - 11:09 par BOOZE

» Système TFX R8 à vendre
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 27 Mai 2022 - 11:04 par Vortex

» [Oldies] Problèmes de traduction
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeJeu 26 Mai 2022 - 22:56 par DidierF

» [Technique] ATK contre effet de chaîne...
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeJeu 26 Mai 2022 - 22:34 par Ed

» [ oldies ] Sachsenring 70 71 72
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeJeu 26 Mai 2022 - 16:06 par Adco

» controle technique moto
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 25 Mai 2022 - 23:04 par Charly

» [Oldies] Collections motos en vente aux enchères...
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 25 Mai 2022 - 18:12 par Charly

» [SORTIES] Sunday Ride Classic 2022, 11 et 12 juin
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMar 24 Mai 2022 - 22:17 par crigar

» [Technique] Honda racing des sixties
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 23 Mai 2022 - 23:23 par Adco

» 23e GP du Ried
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 23 Mai 2022 - 15:08 par obaya

» [Sorties] BMC 23/24 juillet 2022
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 23 Mai 2022 - 13:46 par spyderman 32

» [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 23 Mai 2022 - 13:19 par Architito2002

» WSBK Estoril 2022
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 23 Mai 2022 - 13:13 par mickey

» [MotoGP] GP de France 2022 au Mans - Les 13 , 14 et 15 Mai 2022
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 23 Mai 2022 - 9:46 par crigar

» [Oldies] 250 PERNOD
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeSam 21 Mai 2022 - 11:34 par Ed

» [Oldies] Un petit bout de l’histoire Morbidelli, 1977-1979
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 20 Mai 2022 - 20:32 par spreyer

» [Oldies] Les Suzuki d'usine 50 et 125cc à Bourg en Bresse en 1966
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 20 Mai 2022 - 12:50 par pascaltz

» [SORTIES] Vintage Revival Montlhéry mai 2022
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 20 Mai 2022 - 12:08 par Dan42

» [Oldies] Jarno Saarinen, la star qui a revolutionné le pilotage (Part 5)
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 20 Mai 2022 - 0:41 par DidierF

» [Oldies] Les transporteurs de motos des paddocks
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeVen 20 Mai 2022 - 0:13 par closed

» [Oldies] Des livres sur la course moto
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeJeu 19 Mai 2022 - 23:57 par DidierF

» [ oldies ] Les photos de Roger Lohrer
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeJeu 19 Mai 2022 - 22:15 par spyderman 32

La réclame...
Mots-clés
suzuki inventaire ducati bresse ROAD zone geco francaises oldies bourg yamaha artisanales wanted terrot classic 2013 coupe RACING motobecane 1976 charade motos side aprilia 1973 rouge
Meilleurs posteurs
Marc
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
EDOUARD Jean
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
philwood
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
mickey
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
Pierre"PhilRead"
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
yves kerlo
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
Fügner
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
Jarno
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
bubu
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
Dialmax
wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting16wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting13wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Voting15 
La réclame...
Le Deal du moment : -38%
KINDERKRAFT – Draisienne Runner Galaxy Vintage
Voir le deal
27.99 €

 

 [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)

Aller en bas 
+98
pagi
teriks
jfn2
max.raffaele.9
Bob van der Zijden
Stephane
scottydog
mxer
gpracing
Al1 Dubois
190mech
Forgi
Hemeyla
pierre
TechnoPro
yeahhim
ambike
Dave Pearce
LucF
Maverock
florent.doublet
BRUNEAU
brokedown
Robertor
Riley Will
ice t
fpayart
RAW
lodgernz
luca.lorigiola
TZ350
hurricane
ilBBestia
Areomyst
Mic
Perra.S
CRECY
nick gill
Seb4LO
Gordon Jones
Daniel5
Tim Ey
palezu
aolivry
vangelas
Manuel Rainer
SPEEDSLUT
crankshaft
pfpraider
zeze
Toop
resnik
oktrg500
Filandro
dutch fisher
2005bully
Piquer
bengui
peter1962
{mRk}
bentou
SB07
alcatelko
Ken Seeber
Howard Gifford
pierre95
Muciek
el castor
maccas
Ian Harrison
Marc
Motors31
kel
mj43
GtG001
motoholic71
JanSchäffer
uniflow
williamsmotowerx
roost
Jeram
husaberger
XpTpSMTT
GrahamB
Haufen
Paul Gane
Institute of TwoStrokes
wax
cruz.e.silva
senso
Frits Overmars
koenich
Paul Olesen
Sanderhoutman
Daniel A.
Jan Thiel
Vagelis
romeuh80
102 participants
Aller à la page : Précédent  1 ... 20 ... 37, 38, 39, 40  Suivant
AuteurMessage
ice t




Nombre de messages : 11
Localisation : Slovenia
Date d'inscription : 27/03/2013

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMar 18 Mar 2014 - 23:19

Frits Overmars a écrit:

0,7 * (33,3 mm / 47,6 mm ) ^4,57 * 47,6 mm = 6,5 mm

Thank You Frits. I was drawing port shapes almost the entire evening but i still need to ask you another question. Which drawing is the correct way to measure ? I know it says half-axis but the radius seems a bit big. (also compared to the rsw drawings)

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMar 18 Mar 2014 - 23:56

The drawing on the left shows the correct way. Remember that in addition to the half-ellipse the Aprilia main exhaust port has a radiused upper port edge (look at the dotted line). The true half-axis is larger than it appears in the drawing below.

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
jasonsmithrealtor

jasonsmithrealtor


Nombre de messages : 8
Localisation : Watertown
Date d'inscription : 06/03/2014

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 4:11

What was the direction of coolant flow through the rsa? Our engines flow from the head down to base. Head is vented back to reservoir to avoid air pushing back into the engine. I thought of making it flow reverse of that so the base would get the coolest water. Frits do you have an opinion? Thanks
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Vortex




Nombre de messages : 42
Localisation : Luxembourg
Date d'inscription : 26/11/2013

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 8:23

Hi Frits,

This is from a fixed gear 125cc kartengine with 2 step powervalve.

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

What do you think about this shape?

thx
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 11:43

jasonsmithrealtor a écrit:
What was the direction of coolant flow through the rsa? Our engines flow from the head down to base. Head is vented back to reservoir to avoid air pushing back into the engine. I thought of making it flow reverse of that so the base would get the coolest water. Frits do you have an opinion? Thanks
The water from the pump enters the top of the cases between the gearbox and the crankshaft. It then flows downward, forming a heat shield between the hot gearbox oil and the crankcase, circles around the crankshaft and comes up at the front of the engine where it enters the cylinder below the exhaust duct, and finally exits from the head cover.
You can also see the small vent nipples at the highest point of the head cover and in the connection between pump and cases. Everything is just as you were suggesting Jason  Wink .
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 12:06

Vortex a écrit:
Hi Frits, This is from a fixed gear 125cc kartengine with 2 step powervalve. What do you think about this shape?
I don't see anything wrong, Vortex, but it's difficult to judge from just a couple of pictures.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
GrahamB

GrahamB


Nombre de messages : 3456
Age : 60
Localisation : Lyon
Date d'inscription : 19/08/2011

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 12:16

Frits Overmars a écrit:
forming a heat shield between the hot gearbox oil and the crankcase,

Frits, did you ever happen to measure a typical temperature in vs out difference ?

I would have supposed that a high flow rate would increase the total heat transfer but would tend to reduce the max vs min temp difference, so you'd get a lower head temp but warmer crankcases. Is my intuition faulty here?
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 17:27

Incoming and outgoing coolant temperatures were of course measured. I have no data at hand but I seem to remember something like 4°C difference. Maybe Jan can be more precise.
A higher flow rate will certainly lower the head temp. But warmer crankcases? The incoming coolant will be warmer, but since there will be more of it per unit time, and since a higher flow velocity will improve heat transfer, the cases might as well be cooler  Wink.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Vortex




Nombre de messages : 42
Localisation : Luxembourg
Date d'inscription : 26/11/2013

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 19:23

Dear Frits,
Is a higher flow velocity always push down the work temperature?
Because it seems to me than if lowering the speed of the pump when it is very hot outside, the water better cool down with the same radiator, or is that totaly wrong?
Thx.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
ice t




Nombre de messages : 11
Localisation : Slovenia
Date d'inscription : 27/03/2013

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 19:27

Frits Overmars a écrit:
The drawing on the left shows the correct way. Remember that in addition to the half-ellipse the Aprilia main exhaust port has a radiused upper port edge (look at the dotted line). The true half-axis is larger than it appears in the drawing below.

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

Thank you again Frits. I did some measuring today and realized i can't make such a big radius like the left drawing because the timings would be to big. What do you say for the right drawing with the black line for corner radiuses and a nice chamfer radius on the upper port edge ? Excuse me that i am asking so many questions but the best way to learn and get some extra HP is a chance to talk with experienced like you  wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 771973
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
GrahamB

GrahamB


Nombre de messages : 3456
Age : 60
Localisation : Lyon
Date d'inscription : 19/08/2011

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 21:56

Frits Overmars a écrit:
The incoming coolant will be warmer, but since there will be more of it per unit time, and since a higher flow velocity will improve heat transfer, the cases might as well be cooler  Wink.

I guess then it would depend on the direction of the temperature difference between head and cases: it seems to me that the limiting case of very high water flow is that everything on the cooling circuit converges to the same temperature... and if the same total heat is to be shed, that has to be the average of the radiator inlet & outlet temps. In which case it would become interesting to have a separate cooling system for the cases...?
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 22:54

Vortex a écrit:
Dear Frits, Is a higher flow velocity always push down the work temperature? Because it seems to me than if lowering the speed of the pump when it is very hot outside, the water better cool down with the same radiator, or is that totaly wrong?
When in doubt, exaggerate, Vortex. Let us assume that we reduce the flow velocity through the radiator down to zero. Then the water in the radiator will assume the ambient air temperature. But that won't do the engine much good....
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 22:58

ice t a écrit:
I did some measuring today and realized i can't make such a big radius like the left drawing because the timings would be to big. What do you say for the right drawing with the black line for corner radiuses and a nice chamfer radius on the upper port edge.
Define 'a nice chamfer radius', ice t. If you make the radius large enough, you don't need an elliptical port roof at all.
But 'nice' won't work in a formula.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 23:05

GrahamB a écrit:
.. it seems to me that the limiting case of very high water flow is that everything on the cooling circuit converges to the same temperature.
That seems to me too.
Citation :
and if the same total heat is to be shed, that has to be the average of the radiator inlet & outlet temps.
But we just agreed that inlet and outlet temps have become identical  wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 349660.
Citation :
In which case it would become interesting to have a separate cooling system for the cases...?
Not counting the complications of multiple pumps and radiators and the accompanying increase in friction losses and air resistance: yes. But that's too complicated for me, Graham. I like KISS.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
GtG001




Nombre de messages : 81
Age : 67
Localisation : Adelaide, Australia
Date d'inscription : 03/06/2012

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMer 19 Mar 2014 - 23:57

Hi Vortex,
What brand of motor were the photos of?

Hi Frits or Jan,
Can you remember what was the temperature the gearbox oil run at before water cooling cases were introduced and how much improvement did it make?

Thanks in advance for your answers. wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 809262
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeJeu 20 Mar 2014 - 0:52

GtG001 a écrit:
Hi Frits or Jan,
Can you remember what was the temperature the gearbox oil run at before water cooling cases were introduced and how much improvement did it make?
I can't. Maybe Jan can. Be I suspect it is an unanswerable question. The oil temperature will fluctuate with the amount of oil, the viscosity of the oil, the power passing through the gearbox, the external heat dissipation of the gearbox, and the duration of a power measurement.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Paul Gane




Nombre de messages : 14
Age : 62
Localisation : London, England
Date d'inscription : 07/03/2013

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeJeu 20 Mar 2014 - 3:18

Frits, when it was decided to use a engine driven water pump , instead of a electricly powered pump mentioned earlier in the forum. Did Jan and yourself design a water pump specifically for the RSA, or did you use parts from a current model from the Aprilia foul stroke range, for instance.
Would you or Jan have any details or photos of impeller diameter, pipe id, etc.
Many thanks to you and Jan for sharing all your knowledge  wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 241515 wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 241515 wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 241515 
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2485
Age : 73
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeJeu 20 Mar 2014 - 8:42

I did not have anything to do with the design of the pump. Jan may be able to tell you more.
I don't think any Aprilia foul-stroke had a pump with anything like this capacity.
By the way, the RSA was not built by Aprilia but by Derbi.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
RAW




Nombre de messages : 86
Localisation : Australia
Date d'inscription : 05/05/2012

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 24 Mar 2014 - 9:43

Jan you wrote if a pipe is to long it will respond positively to a poor adjustment,
What do you mean- lean / rich / ignition or all of these
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Jan Thiel




Nombre de messages : 512
Age : 81
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 24 Mar 2014 - 10:03

RAW a écrit:
Jan you wrote if a pipe is to long it will respond positively to a poor adjustment,
What do you mean- lean / rich / ignition or all of these

Did you traduce that from Dutch?
It means leaner and/or retarded, to raise the temperature.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Jan Thiel




Nombre de messages : 512
Age : 81
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 24 Mar 2014 - 10:18

Paul Gane a écrit:
Frits, when it was decided to use a engine driven water pump , instead of a electricly powered pump mentioned earlier in the forum.  Did Jan and yourself design a water pump specifically for the RSA, or did you use parts from a current model from the Aprilia foul stroke range, for instance.
Would you or Jan have any details or photos of impeller diameter,  pipe id, etc.
Many thanks to you and Jan for sharing all your knowledge  wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 241515 wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 241515 wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 241515 

The engine was designed and made at Derbi.
And we assumed that the electrical pump used there would be sufficient.
When Piaggio bought Aprilia the engine went there, and Derbi was closed.
At Aprilia some very serious testing was done, with a big waterpump with variable speed.
The result of this test was: the faster the circulation the better!
For cooling as well as against detonation.
So the insufficient electric pump was abandoned.
And a mechanical pump with the same impeller as the Aprilia RSW was fitted.
It was not too beautiful, on the outside of the primary cover.
But we could not do anything else, as the crancases were already finished.
Making the pump inside, as on the RSW, would have meant a whole new design of the crankcase!
And there was no more time to do that.
The outside pump never gave any problems, not even when the bike was crashed!
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Marc
Admin
Marc


Nombre de messages : 28087
Age : 63
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 24 Mar 2014 - 12:59

Thanks, Jan!

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 1993206895 
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
http://www.pit-lane.biz
Manuel Rainer




Nombre de messages : 98
Localisation : Italy
Date d'inscription : 30/10/2012

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeLun 24 Mar 2014 - 18:37

hi

Jan in part 2 page 12 you talking about the squish in the RSA:

Jan Thiel a écrit:

The 0,7mm squish was the minimum we could use with good power at high pm.
Less squish gave more power at low rpm, until 12000 rpm, but the engine would not rev.
It would just stop firing at about 13500
We tried everything we could to make the engine rev with a 0,55 squish.
Impossible! Even 0,65 was negative!
The piston would touch with 0,45.
So the 'real' squish at high rpm was 0,25

did this test where made always with the same combustion chamber? if yes, do you increase the compression ratio by reducing the squish gap.

did the engine dont want to rev of the fact of to high compression ratio?

thanks Manuel
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Paul Gane




Nombre de messages : 14
Age : 62
Localisation : London, England
Date d'inscription : 07/03/2013

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMar 25 Mar 2014 - 2:22

Thanks for the water pump info Jan wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 809262 bravo
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Jan Thiel




Nombre de messages : 512
Age : 81
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitimeMar 25 Mar 2014 - 2:59

Manuel Rainer a écrit:
hi

Jan in part 2 page 12 you talking about the squish in the RSA:

Jan Thiel a écrit:

The 0,7mm squish was the minimum we could use with good power at high pm.
Less squish gave more power at low rpm, until 12000 rpm, but the engine would not rev.
It would just stop firing at about 13500
We tried everything we could to make the engine rev with a 0,55 squish.
Impossible! Even 0,65 was negative!
The piston would touch with 0,45.
So the 'real' squish at high rpm was 0,25
 

did this test where made always with the same combustion chamber? if yes, do you increase the compression ratio by reducing the squish gap.

did the engine dont want to rev of the fact of to high compression ratio?

thanks Manuel

No Manuel, the squish was varied maintaining the same compression ratio!
Doing it otherwise would not be serious!
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Contenu sponsorisé





wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked) - Page 38 Icon_minitime

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
 
[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 3) (Locked)
Revenir en haut 
Page 38 sur 40Aller à la page : Précédent  1 ... 20 ... 37, 38, 39, 40  Suivant
 Sujets similaires
-
» [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)
» [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)
» [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)
» [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)
» [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 5)

Permission de ce forum:Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
 :: ACTUALITES :: [GP] :: [GP125 (et 250 Snif!)]-
Sauter vers: