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 [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust

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AuteurMessage
{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Jeu 13 Déc 2012 - 10:11

These are the images of Filandro:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
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romeuh80



Nombre de messages : 102
Age : 28
Localisation : Leiria, Portugal
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2011

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Jeu 13 Déc 2012 - 12:55

{mRk} a écrit:
I'll post the designs of a exhaust we use. The second exhaust is the result of the fos-pipe program.
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Some advice or recommendation?

The first design works good?
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Jeu 13 Déc 2012 - 20:34

Work ... But I know, I can do better.
I have to work, try and try again. Now I work on exhausts, heads, reeds and ignition.

I have problems to solve, in particular with the carburetor VHST.
I also have to increase the distance of the spark plug from the piston.

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romeuh80



Nombre de messages : 102
Age : 28
Localisation : Leiria, Portugal
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2011

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Jeu 13 Déc 2012 - 21:17

{mRk} a écrit:
Work ... But I know, I can do better.
I have to work, try and try again. Now I work on exhausts, heads, reeds and ignition.

I have problems to solve, in particular with the carburetor VHST.
I also have to increase the distance of the spark plug from the piston.


You still work on a lot of variables.

Is your spark plug heating too mutch the piston?
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Ven 14 Déc 2012 - 11:59

Absolutely not.
This distance is too small:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
I was interested to improve acceleration out of corners. Thus the temperatures of the exhaust gases are low, changing the performance of the exhaust:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
To improve the performance of the exhaust were using the flanges with different lengths.

Now I work to maintain the same acceleration and improve performance at high rpm. I increase the squish area of ​​up to 50% of bore and will try to bring the distance to 8.2 - 8.3 mm.
I wanted to make new exhaust with de Laval nozzles. But this is more complicated, I don't have experience or references.
I don't want damage the engine For now I'll try to make a exhaust as indicated by fos-pipe.
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ToraTora



Nombre de messages : 3
Localisation : San Francisco
Date d'inscription : 02/12/2012

MessageSujet: California Mito Action   Sam 15 Déc 2012 - 0:14

You guys are racing the Mito so clearly you are further along than I am with my bike. I have a street based Mito out here in San Francisco. I've done a couple of interesting things with mine though, and I might have something for you. I noticed that you are chatting about carbs. Mine came equipped with the TM35 and I swapped it out for the PWK28. The throttle response is much nicer, and I got a bonus of getter better fuel economy than I get with my kitted Derbi GPR.

Here's the PWK installed (yeah I know I need a new intake manifold--parts are tough to get out here in the States, and this is the intake that showed up from my UK eBay purchase). The nice thing about these carbs, purchase wise, is that they are fitted stock on the Kawasaki KX85/100. You can walk into the local dealer and buy one for around $100USD. Yamaha also has these on the YZ85, but they cost more. The stock choke cable connects right up without need to change any fittings. I still run the oil pump so I had to add a fitting for the oil line.
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
I'm running the 73037 cylinder, with the H head. Piston wise I've had excellent results with the Wisco flat top
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Here's a photo of it next to the stock piston
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
It's really great to see people still active with the Mito development. Very Happy
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Filandro



Nombre de messages : 41
Localisation : Italia
Date d'inscription : 20/11/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Sam 15 Déc 2012 - 10:00

Hi Tora, thanks for your interesting photos; question is, Jap spare needles and jets are far costly than Dell'Ortos.
Surely you fitted one of the best carbs now available!
But please, change that manifold.. .
If you can't find it, please send me a PM.
Ciao
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Sam 15 Déc 2012 - 20:08

ToraTora a écrit:
You guys are racing the Mito so clearly you are further along than I am with my bike. I have a street based Mito out here in San Francisco. I've done a couple of interesting things with mine though, and I might have something for you. I noticed that you are chatting about carbs. Mine came equipped with the TM35 and I swapped it out for the PWK28. The throttle response is much nicer, and I got a bonus of getter better fuel economy than I get with my kitted Derbi GPR.

Here's the PWK installed (yeah I know I need a new intake manifold--parts are tough to get out here in the States, and this is the intake that showed up from my UK eBay purchase). The nice thing about these carbs, purchase wise, is that they are fitted stock on the Kawasaki KX85/100. You can walk into the local dealer and buy one for around $100USD. Yamaha also has these on the YZ85, but they cost more. The stock choke cable connects right up without need to change any fittings. I still run the oil pump so I had to add a fitting for the oil line.
---
I'm running the 73037 cylinder, with the H head. Piston wise I've had excellent results with the Wisco flat top
---
Here's a photo of it next to the stock piston
---
It's really great to see people still active with the Mito development. Very Happy
For the Mikuni TM35 you can try jet needle 6AEL01-61 and mainjet 290 or 300.

I tried the PWK28:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
It works well.
Yamaha and Kawasaki use different needle (NAPE, NAPF for KAwasali, NBKF for Yamaha) and needle jet.

I ran the tests on single ring pistons produced by Wiseco, Asso, Vertex and Prox. Wiseco, Vertex and Prox work fine. Prox and Wiseco provide good rings, Vertex not always. The Asso sinle ring pistons have bad profile and low rings quality.
With piston "profile" I mean this:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 11:02

{mRk} a écrit:
I'll post the designs of a exhaust we use. The second exhaust is the result of the fos-pipe program.
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Some advice or recommendation?
What happens if I insert a de laval nozzle at the end of the exhaust and change Dtail in 25.5 mm? Should do this test or is time lost?
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ToraTora



Nombre de messages : 3
Localisation : San Francisco
Date d'inscription : 02/12/2012

MessageSujet: Thanks!   Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 11:28

Oh hey guys thanks for the response. Very Happy


Filandro, yeah it's difficult to get tasty bits here in the States. I was surprised to read here that there might be a CR125 intake that might work with the Mito--is that what you were going to mention?

{mRk}, I see that you've also upgraded your shock--what did you install? I had read over on the 125cc Sportsbike forum that an Aprilia RS250 shock would work. So I sourced one and found that they are about the right length, but there was a bit of modification to get it to mount properly. Razz

(I do need to mount the res better!)

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
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ToraTora



Nombre de messages : 3
Localisation : San Francisco
Date d'inscription : 02/12/2012

MessageSujet: PWK Bits   Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 11:45

Here's a mini table of the bits that come in the stock carbs on the YZ/KX bikes when buying a PWK

KX85....needle.....mainjet........pilotjet
............NAPE......#140............#45

KX100...needle.....mainjet........pilotjet
.............NAPF......#138...........#45

YZ85....needle.....mainjet........pilotjet
............NBKF......#138...........#45

Also, the OKO parts fit the PWK (because the OKO's are PWK copies), and I've found that the moped guys here in the States stock these parts at reasonable rates. Each of these kits sells for $24 USD. (click on the photos to go to the [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] website where I bought these.)

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
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Institute of TwoStrokes



Nombre de messages : 148
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 12:23

Nitron is great option

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
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Filandro



Nombre de messages : 41
Localisation : Italia
Date d'inscription : 20/11/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 16:44

Filandro, yeah it's difficult to get tasty bits here in the States. I was surprised to read here that there might be a CR125 intake that might work with the Mito--is that what you were going to mention?

MRK suggested me to fit the CR 125 reed cage; I've done this, with genuine HRC reeds .
Added two side triangle-shaped sheets to reduce crank volume (Honda cage is shorter than stock one).
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]" border="0" alt="" />
About the Aprilia 250 shock, you can fit it, but with a softer spring.
Send me a PM, there is a good UK shop for Cagiva parts.
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Jeu 20 Déc 2012 - 0:12

ToraTora a écrit:
Oh hey guys thanks for the response. Very Happy


Filandro, yeah it's difficult to get tasty bits here in the States. I was surprised to read here that there might be a CR125 intake that might work with the Mito--is that what you were going to mention?

{mRk}, I see that you've also upgraded your shock--what did you install? I had read over on the 125cc Sportsbike forum that an Aprilia RS250 shock would work. So I sourced one and found that they are about the right length, but there was a bit of modification to get it to mount properly. Razz

(I do need to mount the res better!)

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
I use kit SP shock (Sachs and Ceriani). My shock are modified and recalibrated.

The shock absorber RS250 is not good, it's too hard. You must modify it.
I use 5.2 kg/mm springs for a rider of 76 kg.
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Mer 26 Déc 2012 - 20:43

Does anyone know show me the relationship between wave speed and temperature of the gas?
Before building this exhaust must be certain of the operating temperatures of the exhaust gases:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Setting wave speed 530 m/s measures change much (Lmax = 809.0mm) , I have to be sure about this parameter. I can vary the temperature of the exhaust gas only within a certain range.


Have any of you tried working with the de laval nozzles?

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michaelten



Nombre de messages : 39
Localisation : Australia
Date d'inscription : 31/10/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Jeu 27 Déc 2012 - 9:18

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

I asked the same question here. It was explained by a few people.
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Jeu 27 Déc 2012 - 9:47

Thank you!
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Sam 29 Déc 2012 - 22:00

Frits Overmars a écrit:
Thank you, Vagelis.
I wish to emphasize once more that this FOS exhaust concept is only meant to help beginning tuners on their way and a lot of important facors, like compression ratio, ignition timing, type of fuel, carburetter diameter, crankcase volume, and port angle*areas, are not taken into account. Instead of all those factors that I left out, I included one variable, the speed of sound. Starting with 550 m/s will get you in the right ballpark, after which you can vary this value according to your findings.
Final remark: the calculation of the tailpipe restrictor diameter is critical: you can only apply it to engines that are thermally sound. Air-cooled engines are not...
How affects on the FOS exhaust concept a small diameter carburetor (only 28mm)?
Thanks!

Come incide l'utilizzo di un carburatore piccolo (da soli 28mm) sul dimensionamento della marmitta con il FOS pipe? Quali correttivi si posso eventualmente introdurre?
Grazie!
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Frits Overmars

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Nombre de messages : 2106
Age : 70
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Dim 30 Déc 2012 - 13:09

A smaller carburettor will probably influence the engine power so it will probably also influence the exhaust gas temperature and thus the speed of sound, and it will influence the tailpipe restrictor diameter, as you can see in the formula for Dtailrestrictor.
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Dim 30 Déc 2012 - 14:22

Thanks for the reply.
I will create different test exhaust with different wave speed parameter: 550, 540 and 530. I'll try to find the best compromise.
I also would try different tailpipe restrictor and this de laval nozzle:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

I will try and try again, until I improve the performance.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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Frits Overmars

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Nombre de messages : 2106
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MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Lun 31 Déc 2012 - 3:28

{mRk} a écrit:
I will create different test exhaust with different wave speed parameter: 550, 540 and 530. I'll try to find the best compromise.
Initially, try bigger steps: 400 - 500 - 600. Then, according to your findings, you can take smaller steps.
If you start with the smaller steps, it may take forever to find the optimum.
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michaelten



Nombre de messages : 39
Localisation : Australia
Date d'inscription : 31/10/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Lun 31 Déc 2012 - 5:43

Good idea!

I have been playing around with the numbers for my bike and couldn't decide which pipes to actually make.

Do you make all your pipes using the same formula or do you add in other information? If so, could you elaborate on other factors when you design pipes?
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
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MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Lun 31 Déc 2012 - 11:14

Okay, I'll try with bigger steps.

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romeuh80



Nombre de messages : 102
Age : 28
Localisation : Leiria, Portugal
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MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Jeu 10 Jan 2013 - 23:20

Hi again.

Filandro, Have you already builded the exhaust from Frits concept?
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Filandro



Nombre de messages : 41
Localisation : Italia
Date d'inscription : 20/11/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 Stroke] Cagiva Mito Racer-new Exhaust   Ven 11 Jan 2013 - 18:41

Hi, I'm trying to find a new argon tank for my TIG..
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