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 [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?

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AuteurMessage
Ian Harrison



Nombre de messages : 100
Localisation : United Kingdom
Date d'inscription : 28/08/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 19:08

Institute of TwoStrokes a écrit:
Ian we have LiPo's that use alternators or normal chargers no problems. Gordie I wouldn't mind those damaged cylinders.

Hi Lozza

Can you post details of these LiPo batteries?

Personally I wouldn't run a lightweight LiPo with an onboard charging system. In that instance I would use a hard case lightweight battery using lithium ferrous nanophosphate technology. These are fine with a normal charger as long as you don't let them fall below 8 Volts.

Best Regards

Ian
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Gordon Jones

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Nombre de messages : 15
Age : 65
Localisation : Shropshire UK
Date d'inscription : 04/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 20:00

Thanks for all the feedback - I've been a bit slow to answer - still got a stinking cold - I'll try to cover all the things mentioned - please give me a nudge if I miss anything...

Ian Harrison a écrit:
Honda were dragged kicking and screaming into the 2-stroke arena, in the first place, so not surprising that they try and destroy the 2-stroke.
I must avoid a rant in that direction - suffice to say they are not my favourite manufacturer - nothing to do with the product - just some of the other things they are rumoured to have done / caused... affraid

The Kart pipe "connection"- something I might look at doing - pipes on the outfit can be a task to fit - a joint at the end of the header might ease the fitting - only downside I would think is the possibility of leakage - although a good sealer should sort that out.

Citation :
Looking at the Ignitions - I prefer generator, but we also try the DC CDI's with batteries.
We used to use generator ignition (Motoplat / Femsa etc) - and it took a while to be convinced to try the Total Loss - must say - I'd prefer to have some sort of battery charging on the bike - with the battery running the Ignition - but not found an easy way to do it...
I bought a new charger this year when the original fell over - it does all the different types - a bit expensive I though when I bought it - but no regrets as yet...
LiPro Dual 6
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Citation :
£100.00 per CDI plus VAT including shipping or £550.00 + VAT for all 6
I could be interested in those - but not this side of Xmas / New Year Very Happy
I'm guessing they are the SPARKER DC-CDI-P2 race ? and that I could buy the suitable connector loom - or is it a specific single cylinder box ?

Citation :
where do I find deatails of the Pro-Digital ignition that you mention?
If you PM an email address - I'll send you the PDFs of the Ignition & software manual - there's no website - but you can phone the man that makes them Very Happy - very helpful too.

Citation :
Gordie I wouldn't mind those damaged cylinders.
When I've shifted this rotten cold in a couple of days - I'll get the box out & take a few photos Very Happy



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http://www.maplesigns.co.uk/partslist
Institute of TwoStrokes



Nombre de messages : 148
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Mer 19 Déc 2012 - 21:27

Ian Harrison a écrit:
Institute of TwoStrokes a écrit:
Ian we have LiPo's that use alternators or normal chargers no problems. Gordie I wouldn't mind those damaged cylinders.

Hi Lozza

Can you post details of these LiPo batteries?

Personally I wouldn't run a lightweight LiPo with an onboard charging system. In that instance I would use a hard case lightweight battery using lithium ferrous nanophosphate technology. These are fine with a normal charger as long as you don't let them fall below 8 Volts.

Best Regards

Ian

Just never store them flat or charge above 13v I use a 'modern' cheaper charger from Aldi. We use the 120CCA model, you will swear the box is empty when you get it. A friend found a similar battery but cheaper somewhere(but I can't remember where it was)

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Gordie all Ignitechs are configurable in many ways , Ian's look like P2's not the RACE versions
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Ian Harrison



Nombre de messages : 100
Localisation : United Kingdom
Date d'inscription : 28/08/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Jeu 20 Déc 2012 - 3:31

Gordon Jones a écrit:
£100.00 per CDI plus VAT including shipping or £550.00 + VAT for all 6.
I could be interested in those - but not this side of Xmas / New Year Very Happy
I'm guessing they are the SPARKER DC-CDI-P2 race ? and that I could buy the suitable connector loom - or is it a specific single cylinder box ?

Hi Gordon

Of course all our Ignitechs are the SPARKER DC-CDI-P2 Race and brand new as pictured below on one of our TM motors.
All come complete with harnesses wired for our single cylinder requirement, but you can add wires or get new harnesses to take full advantage of all the features!!
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

I've messaged you an e-mail, thanks in advance for the pro-digital info.


Institute of TwoStrokes a écrit:
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Gordie all Ignitechs are configurable in many ways , Ian's look like P2's not the RACE versions
Hi Lozza

I've read the blurb on the batteries, but I'm not convinced that these are actually Lithium Polymer (LiPo's). The voltage is too low (a 4 cell LiPo is 14.8V). I'm not a battery expert by any means but perhaps they are Lithium Ferrous Nano Phosphate. Anyway, they sound a good product, whatever!

When we use batteries of this type we use these . . . . .
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Best Regards

Ian

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ridley

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Nombre de messages : 1278
Age : 64
Localisation : Dans les collines du Perche
Date d'inscription : 19/02/2009

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Jeu 20 Déc 2012 - 7:34

Here's what I use on a Honda RS 125 for Ignitech Race, data acquisition and electric water pump. This is a very good material.

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Stephane

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Nombre de messages : 414
Age : 49
Localisation : 29 - Finistère
Date d'inscription : 27/12/2008

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Jeu 20 Déc 2012 - 7:41

morepower a écrit:
rgdavid a écrit:
SEB4LO a écrit:
I do think that the guy who paid a large ammount of cash nearly one year ago have some reasons to complaint but he does not....

I do have the dyno of this engine whatever you say , the porting choosen doesn't match to the bike programm , with such high diagramms and stock cdi there is no way it becomes a ridable bike
The maintenance of a 13000 reving rpm engine with large pistons is just insane ... And same for the crank life ...

big plus 1 with Seb,
this bike seems to be the "test" bike for this conversion,
(see the owners write up on forum 2temps.fr)


and for a sidecar engine i don't think the RGV clutch/gearbox and crankcases will last long at all,
Can you post a link to the write up?? please...
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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Jeu 20 Déc 2012 - 8:57

morepower a écrit:
I think there have been a few changes to the porting in the past 12 months. I saw a dyno sheet from 9th November 2012 with about 75BHP and then this one with 81BHP. It has been limited to 12,500 from what I have seen and to be honest I know Fahron run the 300cc kits with 61mm pistons to well over 13,000rpm in their air cooled Suzuki T6 race bikes.

Running 64mm pistons with a 54.6mm stroke is better than trying to run 66mm pistons and Hummel cylinders at 50.6mm stoke as both get the same 350cc capacity. For guys looking for trackday and road use the 54.6mm stroke option is the best one. 90+ BHP is possible from 350cc in that configuration and off the shelf pistons are available too.

I know nothing of the past with Veronesi as I dont see anything on the english speaking forums and although some of his parts are expensive items like Crankshafts are not a problem for me.. My back ground was making billet cranks for F1 and other world championship series like Moto GP and World Superbikes.
We prefer to make own crankshafts for our VJ22 upgrade. We made ​​the crankshafts with 50.6mm and 54.5mm stroke.
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They are rebuildable, more reliable, cost less and work better... it is my opinion.

Instead for other materials, such as the wheels, we have commissioned the design and construction to third parties, highly specialized companies.
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Stephane

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Nombre de messages : 414
Age : 49
Localisation : 29 - Finistère
Date d'inscription : 27/12/2008

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Jeu 20 Déc 2012 - 9:04

cost less ? (less than Suzuki or less than Veronesi ?)

what is the price for the 54,5 mm ?

what balance factor and conrod have you used (110 mm ?)



i'm on the way to build my own 54,5 and i was on the point to buy 109 mm Samarin Conrod as i use them yet on my NX4 with a great satisfaction
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morepower



Nombre de messages : 12
Localisation : Hinckley
Date d'inscription : 16/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Jeu 20 Déc 2012 - 9:19

Stephane a écrit:
cost less ? (less than Suzuki or less than Veronesi ?)

what is the price for the 54,5 mm ?

what balance factor and conrod have you used (110 mm ?)



i'm on the way to build my own 54,5 and i was on the point to buy 109 mm Samarin Conrod as i use them yet on my NX4 with a great satisfaction

The balance factor is an easy one to answer. It is a 90 degree V Twin The balance factor is 50% of the weight of the complete piston assembly then the rod is weighed end to end and it is 50% of the little end weight but 100% of the big end weight.

I priced up a one off crank being made and it would work out more expensive than a Suzuki crank to the spec I wanted BUT if I ordered 10 off the price would have been less than the Suzuki price..

Nice work MRK! Let me know a price!!!! I may have a few customers lined up!!!
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Ian Harrison



Nombre de messages : 100
Localisation : United Kingdom
Date d'inscription : 28/08/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Jeu 20 Déc 2012 - 11:40

ridley a écrit:
Here's what I use on a Honda RS 125 for Ignitech Race, data acquisition and electric water pump. This is a very good material.

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Hi Ridley,

They are a great battery and charger system. Again they are Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries like the Racing Battery that I have pictured. Just the Racing Batteries are hard-case.

Best Regards

Ian
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Ian Harrison



Nombre de messages : 100
Localisation : United Kingdom
Date d'inscription : 28/08/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 5:17

Hi Guys

Can anyone suggest a manufacturer that would make good quality 69mm stroke racing crankshafts for a Honda CR250 clone for me. A couple initially and then batches of 10.

Normal taper without keyway on ignition side and Honda splines on drive side.

Also a manufacturer of con-rods for the same.

Pref UK based, but not essential.

Image of standard 72mm 2005/7 Honda CR250 crank
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]


Trying to save some legwork.

Best Regards

Ian

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Seb4LO

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Nombre de messages : 2605
Localisation : Concarneau
Date d'inscription : 05/07/2009

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 7:26

I would ask Glenn at Falicon
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Ian Harrison



Nombre de messages : 100
Localisation : United Kingdom
Date d'inscription : 28/08/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 9:16

Hi SEB4LO

Many thanks

I did that already. They can weld up the pin hole and re-bore it on the O/E crank, But the price and lead-time for a bespoke crankshaft are too high and too long and I want to change the crankshaft weighting and design.

Also tried Crankworks with a similar response.

Any others? Any advice/experience on material and hardening/heat treatment would also be appreciated.

Best Regards

Ian



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Seb4LO

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Nombre de messages : 2605
Localisation : Concarneau
Date d'inscription : 05/07/2009

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 10:14

Ask Fpe , he might have adress , i would have ask Glenn and cranckworks as you did ...
No more ideas ...
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Institute of TwoStrokes



Nombre de messages : 148
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 11:16

I don't know how true it is but I hear a rumour that Suzuki Japan will make items to specs supplied. Could be worth a try.
Old Husqvana's had press in flywheel and primary tapers, you could make new webs from EM36a/b and press in and vaccum braze on the tapers and heat treat and grind to final size.
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Filandro



Nombre de messages : 41
Localisation : Italia
Date d'inscription : 20/11/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 12:49

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] great manufacturer of kart cranks and rods
or this craftsman:
TAMENI MARIO, Snc
Via Benaco 99
25081 BEDIZZOLE (BS)
Tel:+39 030 675780
Hope this helps
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Filandro



Nombre de messages : 41
Localisation : Italia
Date d'inscription : 20/11/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 12:53

and press in and vaccum braze on the tapers and heat treat and grind to final size. [/quote]
Could you explain me this type of welding?
Thanks
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Ian Harrison



Nombre de messages : 100
Localisation : United Kingdom
Date d'inscription : 28/08/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 17:15

Hi Filandro

Many thanks. I will make contact with them in January. It certainly looks as though Primatist could do the job for me.

SEB4LO, Thank you

Lozza, Thanks for that info, I think bespoke is the only way to go.

A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!!

Best Regards

Ian

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pierre95



Nombre de messages : 107
Localisation : val d'oise
Date d'inscription : 14/12/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 19:20

Hi Ian

Maybe have a look and contact at "OO Racing" they are not only work on Pitbike and else... and they are in UK

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Institute of TwoStrokes



Nombre de messages : 148
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 22 Déc 2012 - 21:56

Filandro a écrit:
and press in and vaccum braze on the tapers and heat treat and grind to final size.
Could you explain me this type of welding?
Thanks[/quote]

Main advantage is the item can be heat treated afterwards being copper based.

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{mRk}



Nombre de messages : 52
Age : 47
Localisation : Trieste - Italia
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Lun 24 Déc 2012 - 11:28

Filandro a écrit:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] great manufacturer of kart cranks and rods
or this craftsman:
TAMENI MARIO, Snc
Via Benaco 99
25081 BEDIZZOLE (BS)
Tel:+39 030 675780
Hope this helps
Sandro aka Primatist is okay if you can wait a year or more...

The quality of crankshafts produced by Tameni is questionable.
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morepower



Nombre de messages : 12
Localisation : Hinckley
Date d'inscription : 16/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Lun 24 Déc 2012 - 22:34

Ian Harrison a écrit:
Hi Guys

Can anyone suggest a manufacturer that would make good quality 69mm stroke racing crankshafts for a Honda CR250 clone for me. A couple initially and then batches of 10.

Normal taper without keyway on ignition side and Honda splines on drive side.

Also a manufacturer of con-rods for the same.

Pref UK based, but not essential.

Image of standard 72mm 2005/7 Honda CR250 crank
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]


Trying to save some legwork.

Best Regards

Ian



As long as you can get crank pins you could show the crank to S&J precision and get them to price up what you want. Just be clear of the changes you want and what is critical. They are brilliant engineers but not crank manufacturers so they can make them just not design them.

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michaelten



Nombre de messages : 39
Localisation : Australia
Date d'inscription : 31/10/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Mar 25 Déc 2012 - 3:15

VHM makes crankshafts

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Gordon Jones

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Nombre de messages : 15
Age : 65
Localisation : Shropshire UK
Date d'inscription : 04/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Sam 29 Déc 2012 - 12:56

Institute of TwoStrokes a écrit:
Now about those RGV cylinders .......................................
Lozza - pm me about the cylinders - I've taken pictures of all the cylinders now - there's a link to the pictures at the end of this post.

Here's a picture of some of the stuff I have to sort out...
A box of Cylinders / heads.

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Engine 1 - near complete - also have the rest of the Pro-digital Ignition for this + 39mm Keihin carbs.

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Engine 2 - bottom end complete.

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A box of gearbox stuff + crank.

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And there's a lot more too...
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morepower



Nombre de messages : 12
Localisation : Hinckley
Date d'inscription : 16/12/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [2 stroke] Twin 350cc development ?   Lun 31 Déc 2012 - 12:45

PM sent..... Wink
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