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 [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)

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AuteurMessage
Jan Thiel



Nombre de messages : 477
Age : 78
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Jeu 16 Aoû - 3:46

Honda cylinders have an oval exhaust duct!
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GtG001



Nombre de messages : 81
Age : 64
Localisation : Adelaide, Australia
Date d'inscription : 02/06/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Jeu 16 Aoû - 3:50

Yes, oval port but not as rectangle as the RSA – do you think they would benefit from the RSA shape?
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Jan Thiel



Nombre de messages : 477
Age : 78
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Jeu 16 Aoû - 3:55

I really do not know.
It could be tried, only after trying you can know!
But of course their exhaust port shape is a lot different.
Of course we also tried the 'Honda' exhaust shape.
It gave less power than ours, but carburation was a bit easier.
About 1,5Hp less.


Dernière édition par Jan Thiel le Jeu 16 Aoû - 4:17, édité 1 fois
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GtG001



Nombre de messages : 81
Age : 64
Localisation : Adelaide, Australia
Date d'inscription : 02/06/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Jeu 16 Aoû - 3:58

Thank you Jan.
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fpayart

fpayart

Nombre de messages : 937
Age : 69
Localisation : LYON
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Jeu 16 Aoû - 6:20

The sizes are 39.5 width x 27.5 height (without the radius).
Now I can imagine your next request
The opening time is 196 ° measured without taking into account the radius.

Edit by Damien (Francis's son...), Maybe you were talking about this dimensions ? :

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

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http://www.fperacing.com/
fpayart

fpayart

Nombre de messages : 937
Age : 69
Localisation : LYON
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Ven 17 Aoû - 12:32

Right Damian, sorry,I just missed a little word.

GtG001 a écrit:

Will you tell us the final width and height of the RSA exhaust exit ?

Now you have all the informations entry and exit.

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http://www.fperacing.com/
Haufen



Nombre de messages : 55
Localisation : Allemagne
Date d'inscription : 23/12/2011

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Ven 17 Aoû - 14:39

Jan, did you ever compare the routing of the RSW and RSA exhaust pipes? I am wondering if the outcome would have been different with the almost straight routing of the RSW exhaust compared to the routing of the RSA exhaust pipe (same pipe dimensions on both).
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GtG001



Nombre de messages : 81
Age : 64
Localisation : Adelaide, Australia
Date d'inscription : 02/06/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Sam 18 Aoû - 0:46

Thank you Jan, Francis and Damian for the information.

Congratulations Francis and Damian (FPE) on your great results in the CIK Superkart World Title recently with your new motor.
Thank you Jan and Frits as your gift of information keeps bearing fruit for others too.

Best regards
Allan.



Dernière édition par GtG001 le Sam 18 Aoû - 7:19, édité 2 fois
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Jan Thiel



Nombre de messages : 477
Age : 78
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Sam 18 Aoû - 2:52

Haufen a écrit:
Jan, did you ever compare the routing of the RSW and RSA exhaust pipes? I am wondering if the outcome would have been different with the almost straight routing of the RSW exhaust compared to the routing of the RSA exhaust pipe (same pipe dimensions on both).

I think the bend in the RSA exhaust lost us some power.
And also the necessary longer tailpipe seemed to cause some detonation.
If I had to make a new engine today I would certainly NOT make another RSA!
And it would have a straight exhaust.
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GtG001



Nombre de messages : 81
Age : 64
Localisation : Adelaide, Australia
Date d'inscription : 02/06/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Lun 20 Aoû - 2:27

Hi Jan,
How much HP do you think it cost making the pipe for the RSA (bent) compared to the straight one. Could it have been compensated in dimensions for the bend or was it a direct loss?

Thanks,
Allan.
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Jan Thiel



Nombre de messages : 477
Age : 78
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Lun 20 Aoû - 2:29

I estimate about 0,5 HP.
The bend was negative, as well as the longer tailpipe.
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XpTpSMTT



Nombre de messages : 37
Localisation : Hellas
Date d'inscription : 08/02/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Lun 20 Aoû - 6:37

Jan Thiel a écrit:
...................
If I had to make a new engine today I would certainly NOT make another RSA!
And it would have a straight exhaust..............
So what path would you take,generaly?two rotary?
belt primary drive as mentioned before?Am i asking too much? Very Happy
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Jan Thiel



Nombre de messages : 477
Age : 78
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Lun 20 Aoû - 6:46

Definitely two rotary but no belt drive.
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fpayart

fpayart

Nombre de messages : 937
Age : 69
Localisation : LYON
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Lun 20 Aoû - 11:42

XpTpSMTT a écrit:
So what path would you take,generaly? two rotary? Very Happy
Jan Thiel a écrit:
Definitely two rotary but no belt drive.

Is it I missed something somewhere? Two rotary, one on each side?
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http://www.fperacing.com/
XpTpSMTT



Nombre de messages : 37
Localisation : Hellas
Date d'inscription : 08/02/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Lun 20 Aoû - 12:01

fpayart a écrit:
XpTpSMTT a écrit:
So what path would you take,generaly? two rotary? Very Happy
Jan Thiel a écrit:
Definitely two rotary but no belt drive.

Is it I missed something somewhere? Two rotary, one on each side?

Υes.why not? you could-on a single cylinder-
have a straight shooting pipe towards the rear with the good wheight distribution
of the rsw engine.
Of course there would be a long way to go.
What would happen with the mixtures colliding in the center on the con rod?
And many more like the rotating crankshaft etc.
But then wouldn't you also try direct injection?
Or maybe infinately variable valve area-get rid of the carbs?
Or maybe this coffee is too strong...
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Haufen



Nombre de messages : 55
Localisation : Allemagne
Date d'inscription : 23/12/2011

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Lun 20 Aoû - 18:08

Jan Thiel a écrit:
Definitely two rotary but no belt drive.

Wouldn't a single front Disc be nice also? With the carb facing forward? Or would there be not enough space? The airbox and maybe some isolating material would isolate the carb from the radiator heat.
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XpTpSMTT



Nombre de messages : 37
Localisation : Hellas
Date d'inscription : 08/02/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Lun 20 Aoû - 20:08

Haufen a écrit:
Jan Thiel a écrit:
Definitely two rotary but no belt drive.

Wouldn't a single front Disc be nice also? With the carb facing forward? Or would there be not enough space? The airbox and maybe some isolating material would isolate the carb from the radiator heat.

Your answers are in part one around page 30 i think.
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Jan Thiel



Nombre de messages : 477
Age : 78
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Mar 21 Aoû - 4:06

Haufen a écrit:
Jan Thiel a écrit:
Definitely two rotary but no belt drive.

Wouldn't a single front Disc be nice also? With the carb facing forward? Or would there be not enough space? The airbox and maybe some isolating material would isolate the carb from the radiator heat.

To do this succesfully the crankshaft would have to turn backwards.
And there is insufficient space for the airbox!
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cristogrr

cristogrr

Nombre de messages : 1761
Age : 54
Localisation : sirault belgique
Date d'inscription : 26/04/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Mar 21 Aoû - 8:53

To success all these "mods" to find space behind the cooler, what you think if you put the havier gear box in front of the crankshaft , you have to add an axle to compensate the counterrunning, at low position (thanks the space left by the straight exhaust) and put the drive sprocket to is optimal positionning...
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Jan Thiel



Nombre de messages : 477
Age : 78
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Mar 21 Aoû - 9:27

Adding an axle for counterrunning would cost you about 5% power.
For a 125 that means you lose about 2,7HP.
Do you still like it?
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Howard Gifford



Nombre de messages : 136
Age : 62
Localisation : Ottawa Canada
Date d'inscription : 01/05/2012

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Mar 21 Aoû - 13:53

Could you have a rear facing exhaust port with the rotary inlet still on the rear of the motor and keep the forward rotation?
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Haufen



Nombre de messages : 55
Localisation : Allemagne
Date d'inscription : 23/12/2011

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Mar 21 Aoû - 14:03

Or you could have the cylinder pointing downwards.
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fpayart

fpayart

Nombre de messages : 937
Age : 69
Localisation : LYON
Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Mar 21 Aoû - 15:33

Like those ones ?

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

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http://www.fperacing.com/
Haufen



Nombre de messages : 55
Localisation : Allemagne
Date d'inscription : 23/12/2011

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Mar 21 Aoû - 19:09

fpayart a écrit:
Like those ones ?

Exactly :) Maybe even a bit more to allow for the best compromise between an exhaust pipe as straight as possible and (no) plug fouling (if the engine should prove to be prone to).
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Jan Thiel



Nombre de messages : 477
Age : 78
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   Mer 22 Aoû - 6:23

Howard Gifford a écrit:
Could you have a rear facing exhaust port with the rotary inlet still on the rear of the motor and keep the forward rotation?

I do not think so.
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MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 2) (Locked)   

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